Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

From YKTTW. Discussion leading up to rename from The Krillin
What's the difference between this and Can't Catch Up? Really can't see it.
  • From what I think to understand, the difference is that the Can't Catch Up trope have the "loser" starting on equal terms with the being to be catched up with while this trope shows the difference from the very beginning.

Drascin: Um, I wanted to add a bit to the discussion on the Nanoha example, but I didn't want to add even more Natter, so I'll do it here, if you don't mind. Particularly, about the whole "Power-wise, regardless of intelligence, "skill", and sheer luck, Teana's obviously the weakest member of the entire team and is thoroughly overshadowed by them", which is, well, Completely Missing the Point. Teana isn't supposed to be overpowered like people like Hayate are - her skills are more the subtler kind (the fact that she's one of two caracters able to use illusions in any meaningful way is kind of a tip to this). That's what makes her appealing - in a squad of Fighters, she's the Bard. And everyone who's ever played D&D knows the kind of power that actually is ;).

Servbot: Moving here, since Teana doesn't really belong.

  • Teana Lanstar. She actually realizes that she's being overshadowed and tries to do something about it. As expected for this trope, she fails. Badly. And though a bit above-average in gun skills and tactics, she remains vastly underpowered and overshadowed in comparison to the rest of Riot Force 6, barely managing to beat three foes that the others would've likely trounced near-effortlessly. It makes me sad.
    • Not necessarily effortlessly. The numbers had shown that they could easily take on even the captains one on one. During the Section 6 raid, they pretty much smacked down everyone. Teana beats Nove, Wendi, and Deed singlehandedly, outnumbered, without any reinforcement, communication, AND with a wounded ankle. And consider that Deed got a cheap shot on her when she jumped into the fray unanounced. Subaru had problems with Ginga, and Caro and Erio were locked two on one with Lutecia and had enough difficulties on their own. Fate even needed some encouragement to handle her tasks, and Nanoha is just... Nanoha. Teana did quite well standing on her own during that battle, I'd say. During the Training from Hell, Nanoha gets angry at Teana and Subaru for putting themselves (and their teammates) in danger, just for their own selfish desire to be the strongest. It's here that Teana learns that she is the best leader of the four, even if she's not physically as strong.
      • But still, Teana only won because of her intelligence, sheer dumb luck, and last-second assistance from Vice. We didn't actually see the captains fighting the Numbers during the night battle, and during the final clash, Nanoha effortlessly bull-rushed her way through any Number in her path until she encountered Vivio, while Subaru went up against Ginga, who was significantly stronger than the Numbers; also, during the night-fight Subaru effortlessly pwned the Numbers in her way. We didn't see Erio & Caro fight numbers, but it's likely that Erio's speed and Caro's dragons would give them an advantage. Power-wise, regardless of intelligence, "skill", and sheer luck, Teana's obviously the weakest member of the entire team and is thoroughly overshadowed by them (which makes this Teana-fan troper very sad and angry). I am, of course, not bringing into account that one attack she uses in Sound Stage X, which would probably not make much difference in a straight fight anyway due to charging time and because by the time there was enough ambient magical energy to use it she'd have already been taken down due to being weaker than whoever she'd be up against.

Servbot: People who are Overshadowed by Awesome are people who are incapable of doing feats in addition to lacking powers. The cyborgs who you say anyone else would have taken out easily included two cyborgs (Nove and Wendi) who was curb-stomping all of the Strikers a few episodes ago before Teana pulled them out with her illusion trick, and a third Cyborg (Deed) who spent her time in the same episodes one-shotting every Riot 6 Member she met, including Erio whose speed you say would have given him an advantage, a fate she avoided three times. Erio has trouble just handling Garyu, and the moment he faces more than one enemy, he screws up big time (Hello, Back Stab!). Caro has power with her dragons, but she's too slow and is Bind-bait as Otto showed. (Subaru will of course trash the Cyborgs due to her skills being an instant kill against them, which is probably why they had brainwashed Ginga against her).

This is in addition to the way how Teana has never failed a mission she participated in, ever since her Rage Against the Mentor, and has in fact always been instrumental to its success.

First encounter with Cyborgs? Took the Relic from under their noses when Vita thought that their mission was a failure. Second encounter with Cyborgs? The one battle she participated in there left Nove and Wendi cursing her name after she humiliated them (which is the reason why she got singled out as a prime target). Third mission was the three on one battle, where she took them out by analysing their tactics and realizing that they're predictable, and while Vice had to bail her out when Deed turned out to be a little tougher and is Playing Possum, that's after she had taken two out of commission. And then came StrikerS Sound Stage X, where she was the first one who encountered the Mariage and does an Out of the Inferno when it tries to take her out with it, figured out who the Big Bad is AND gave the Big Bad a full body paralysis (she apparently learned her lesson from Deed) before they could even have a chance to set the plan in motion (a first in Nanoha), and of course, the Wave Motion Gun Dungeon Bypass.

Teana's Weak, but Skilled, yes. But calling her Overshadowed by Awesome is akin to calling Batman overshadowed as well. She's already walking around as Fate's equal in Force, and was taught the Wave Motion Gun spell since Nanoha saw her as one of those who could handle it. If anyone's doing the overshadowing amongst the rookies, it's Teana (Poor Erio just can't seem to get away from the shadow of being a weaker Fate).

Red Wren: Er... The Krillin redirects to this page—the discussion page—rather than the trope. I'm hopeless at stuff like this, can someone else fix it? I'll fix the link that led me here.