Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Dalek Kan Noladti: Can we pretty much consider vampires as a whole a Dead Horse Trope now? They've really been overdone.

Susan Davis: Is flowing water an actual Achilles' Heel, or is it just "harmful but not always fatal?" It certainly gets omitted in many presentations of vampires....

Ununnilium: Classically, it's not something that *hurts* vampires, but they can't cross it. (Not under their own power, anyway.)

Gus: I moved it down. If someone feels it is important, they'll make a case.

Seth: KK we had an entry on Karin and in your one you missed the biggest plot point in Karin that she was so different of a vampire. We need to merge the two lines.

Kendra Kirai: There was an entry on Karin in there already? Whoops. Haven't done that in a while...I didn't really want to give away too much abou Karin herself though, even if she does finally say it at the end of the first episode. I was mainly concentrating on vampires in the Karin-verse in general.

Oh, and I think that running water is supposed to at least weaken vampires if they're forced to cross or go through it...but I could be very wrong.

Seth: That has its routes in old myths about rivers protecting you from evil creatures. Think the ring wraiths not being able to cross the river at first in Fellowship same origin, its not a spoiler it's the basic plot of the show something that is explained immediately in the pilot which makes it ok to post since most people will know it going into the show (Plus i make my views on spoilers pretty well known elsewhere). But since it is actually something new they add to the Our Vampires Are Different trope i thought it was more worth mentioning than the others.

Devil's Advocate: Surely the examples section should include a discussion of Anne Rice's vampire books, as popular as they were - it's been too long since I've read them to remember very well which rules applied there and which didn't, except that sunlight was fatal to many vampires, but not to very strong ones. Maybe someone who remembers them better can add something?

Fast Eddie: pulled
* seen in the webcomic Triquetra Cats, there are actually three completely different species given the label of 'vampire' first the normal vampire, with regular characteristics and weaknesses, second the 'Common European Vampyre' a humanoid animal with large bat wings and opposable toes, that feeds on blood, doesn't have the standard vampire 'lore weaknesses' (garlic, sunlight, silver) but has below human intellegence and can be killed like any other biological being (crumbles to dust when it dies however) it can turn humans to vampyres with a bite, (the process however is a Painful Transformation. the third is the Hand of the Dragon, an abomination crossbreeed of a vampire, a human and a demon, regular humans can be transformed into them but the process of doing so is not yet known, they do not need blood but are usually shown to be cannibalistic

... because I am just totally over pressing the shift key for people and making sentences out stream-of-consciousness outpourings.

Ununnilium: Inserted a tl;dr version.
Tanto: I'm diagnosing the Hellsing example with acute tl;dr syndrome. Anyone care to take a hatchet to it? I've never seen the series, so I don't know what's important.

Fast Eddie: Pulled it over here in original form for repairs...
* Hellsing's vampires diverge somewhat from the norms. True, there are humans who are artificially "turned" that exhibit "standard" weaknesses - one Nazi vampire in Volume Five laments his inability to go out into the Sunday daylight post-conversion, while in Volume Seven the order is given to put on "counter-UV ray equipment". Similar, Seras Victoria sans True Undead powers had to be locked in a coffin during transit from England to Brazil. However, the more powerful can ignore these weaknesses. Tubalcain Alhambra took a baptised, mercury-cored, silver-cased armour-piercing round through the head and had enough left to give Alucard a challenge, and he wasn't even the strongest of the lot. Alucard himself is the most flagrant offender. He survives getting decapitated and stabbed through the heart by Alexander Anderson's blessed bayonets, a triple whammy (decap, heart-stab, blessing) that should have killed any "normal" vampire. He hates sunlight, but it doesn't affect his power. Cover art frequently shows him biting on crucifixes without ill effect. His duel with aforementioned Alhambra was caught on news cameras and he could speak with Sir Integra over the phone. After crashing an SR-71 Blackbird, he climbed out of the burning wreckage unscathed.
// later: installed chop-up

H. Torrance Griffin: I have to note that Evangeline Mac Dowell from Negima resembles Literary Vampires rather more than many, as the sun robs her of most of her personal power but otherwise merely makes her slightly lethargic.

Peteman: I'm going ask: where did the Buffy the Vampire Slayer "hand" incident happen? I saw Willow once punch a Vampire through the back with a pencil, but not the hand.

Fast Eddie. Pencil through hand held over heart: Pike in the original movie, which makes it iffy canon. Anyone trying to decipher a canon that includes the movie just ... has a lot of time on their hands.

The_Mess: Given that no two cultures had particularly similar vampire legends, isn't "our vampires are different" just the default state of all vampires? I mean, different from what? Real vampires? The "standard hollywood vampire" that wasn't even established until about the 1940s and then largely ignored except in making differences from it ever since? Traditional European vampires didn't even have fangs or fear the sunlight.

Fast Eddie: Yes. The interesting thing about this trope is that a work can declare 'vampires', then, in a few brushstrokes, make it mean something particular, with a solid set of expectations to work with. To extend the painting analogy, this trope is like a base coat of gray on a canvas.

Ununnilium: The standard vampire, taken by itself, might be rare... but it's the place where everyone starts, and then applies differences. Everyone knows it — drinks blood, hates sunlight, sleeps in a coffin, turns into a bat, can make humans vampires.

Fast Eddie: You can have a character that has every attribute on the list except #1, it seems, and just not have a vampire.

Meta4: So, would this work as a picture for this article?

BigT: It doesn't quite fit the trope, but I think it should be there for Rule of Funny alone.

What exactly is meant by backwards facing palms?

The Mess: Take your left hand and cut it off. (Okay, IMAGINE cutting it off.) Rotate it 180 degrees and stick it back on. Your palms now face backwards. If you stand up with your arms hanging at your side, the palms will face away from you. This is a common trait of demons in some parts of the world.

Haven: Damn it! I can't believe someone beat me to putting that Dinosaur Comics quote up. Well! I guess I can, but that does not mean I have to like it. edit: on closer inspection, that was YESTERDAY's dinosaur comic and somehow I missed it, so it is more believable yet. And less annoying. Oh well, I came up with the text at the bottom of Infant Immortality so I'm okay!