This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
While I like this page very much, could we maybe not use "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" as an example? After all, the meaning of that image might be confusing for a few moments, but is actually pretty clear
. In contrast, I'd say that a real Mind Screw looks just as if it contained some kind of message, but since its main purpose is confusion, you won't make any sense of it, no matter how hard you think about it - the exact opposite. So, please don't take offense, but because of that, using that picture on the Mind Screw page looks to me more as if someone was too lazy to think outside the box for a few moments ;)
Nolan Burke: I agree. And the 'super secret spoiler' actually explains it, which kills the whole point. There's actually plenty of other Surrealist paintings that would be much more suitable.
Gus Cut this:
- Those whose symbolism is somewhat decipherable tend to focus on people's perceptions of one another. That and puberty.
Kendra Kirai: I think whoever wrote it means something more like this.
- The more decipherable symbolism tends to focus on the perceptions people have of one another. And puberty.
Ununnilium: Yeah. It was perfectly clear to me. >>; I'm putting Kendra's version in.
Planish: How is it that this trope ended up as an Anime category? Isn't it a bit more universal than that?
Ununnilium: Indeed. I'm-a give it an entry in Show Genres as well.
Arkham: Suggestion to add Rah Xephon to the list.
Ununnilium: Works for me.
Tanto: Not really sure Eternal Darkness counts. The plot of that game is fairly stock Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror stuff — the No Fourth Wall elements are designed to imply the characters losing their sanity, not deliberate attempts by the writers to obfuscate the plot.
Sikon: FLCL has a plot?!
Patsy: Looks like someone needs to watch it a few more times.
Fly: Taking out:
- * Portal. Especially the song during the end credits.
fleb: I'm weighing whether to add this quote to the page, since odds are there's a screwier one in there somewhere:
`I hope you don’t suppose those are real tears?’ Tweedledum interrupted in a tone of great contempt.
Caswin: Is The Matrix really an example? I'm touchy about stories like this, but that movie always seemed perfectly comprehensible to me.
Tanto: The sequels, more likely. The first movie was fine because it took a forty-five minute break in the middle of the plot to explain what the Matrix is and how it works, but the sequels didn't bother explaining their nonsensical stuff.
Medinoc: We need to rework the capitals-heavy Buffy example: We have a trope for that, and it's called Cuckoo Nest...
Fast Eddie: This rather long scoreboard section pulled...
- A good way to determine how much of a Mind Screw a series is its Wikipedia entry size. More pages means more people trying to write down the obscure details of the series and figuring out what's going on. The one for Neon Genesis Evangelion is 17 screens long on a 1280 x 1024 screen, Texhnolyze is 7 screens long, while Serial Experiments Lain, Utena and Boogiepop Phantom fill 8 screens of the same resolution. Contrast this with lighter stuff such as School Rumble, which takes up 4.5 screens. And that is, if you don't count all the related Fannage: while the entries for School Rumble "only" reach a total of 48 screens (36 of them because of the massive number of characters), all the entries for anything that has to do with Neon Genesis Evangelion make up for 175 screens!!! (though in fairness, many of those screens have nothing to do with the Mind Screw part of the show) Just for the comparison, Wikipedia has 164 screens worth of basic information about electromagnetism.
... as the trope seems fairly well defined without it.
Timecube isn't a deliberate mindscrew or anything of the sort. Rather, it is the not-especially-coherent rantings of one Gene Ray, who has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and who has been in and out of mental hospitals since puberty. Something like the ilovebees Web page is a deliberate mindscrew. Timecube is something else entirely.
Prfnoff: Moved to Cloudcuckoolander.
That Other 1 Dude: Removed
It's both way to freaking big, and not talking about a Mind Screw, just something that's very very weird.
Large Blunt Object: Oh, nice bowdlerisation, Lord Seth. Reverted. You can remove the word "fuck" from a piece of "How do we not have this one yet?" nonsense and leave the rest of the sentence in? Funny priorities...
Lord Seth: I also have absolutely no idea what edit you're even referring to...
Ttam: Actually, most of the plot points of Final Fantasy VII were cleared up, if you were paying attention.
What the Hell happened to the South Park entry? Is anything more of a Mind Fuck than South Park?
Lord Seth: Because it...really isn't? Sure, it's wacky at times, but it's quite coherent. Incidentally, should the following really be listed:
- A Series Of Unfortunate Events. This troper is most surprised this giant Mind Screw masquerading as a children's book series has not been mentioned yet. I think maybe two of the major subplots were resolved by the end of the series. And we never got to know what happened to any of the Quagmires. What is the significance of the Sugar Bowl? And what the frack did VFD stand for??? The answer to all of these questions are apparently never going to be found.
Caswin: Dr. Horrible? Really? I usually hate having my mind messed with, and I wasn't confused at all by that one.
Tal9922: Removing it for that precise reason. Seems to me more like whoever added that in just didn't hear what Billy said at the end, ( And I feel nothing), which is relatively simple if you watched the whole thing.
I'm pretty sure the line is "And I won't feel/a thing...", but agree that the ending is pretty self explanatory; ie. Billy buries himself inside his Dr. Horrible persona in a futile attempt to escape the guilt and pain caused by Penny's death.
Smokie: Is this really only about symbolism? I mean there are enough examples that state simply mindscrewing "What the hell is going on?" without stupid non-symbolic symbolism to make it look cool (Yes that was ranting). Anyway, isn't it better to alter the description then?
Czernobog:Wait...wait...Nabokov is mentioned, but there's nothing on this page to do with "Invitation to a Beheading"? In fact...that might also fit in Mind Rape, actually...
SenatorJ: I always thought that Hotel California was about immigration. Am I the only one?
Edrobot: Changed the image to something more universal. Hope you don't mind.
BritBllt: I've gotta be honest, I like the other picture better since it humorously summed up the audience reaction to the trope. This one's a little obscure for anyone who's not already familiar with the painting, and for those who are, the paradox is too easily solved (it's not a pipe, it's a picture of a pipe).
Kingdom Hearts? If that's supposed to be mind screw, we might as well list every jRPG created after 1996 and be done with it. Removing.
Yuasa Masaaki's Mind Game seems like it belongs here, at first, but I think the overall message is actually fairly clear...maybe it's just artistic. Thoughts?
Mawootad: Definitely full of mind screw, add it.
PuppetChaos: Ideon is a mindscrew? It had a few trippy moments but the viewer already knows about the Ide and such, so it's not too hard to figure out what's going on.... I'm kind of wondering if it's on this page because of: "It inspired Eva, therefore it must be a Mind Screw!" logic. Removing.
Baneslave: Why "Call Of Duty 4. Shock and Awe" is an example?
Great Pikmin Fan: Does this game count?
