Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Morter: I feel like adding Dio's quote on the bottom right panel as a quote page. Is that good?

I'd like to contribute to this awesome site for once somehow :D

"So, the creature that posseses the Omnitrix is resourceful as well as fierce... But I will not be denied!"
—Vilgax, Ben 10

...because it didn't really illustrate the idea that well.

Wiki: I'd take him out altogether and avoid putting villains in. I mean how many (ehm American children) action cartoons can you think of that doesn't end each episode with the bad guy sulking in his chair saying stuff like "They may have won this round, but I will [insert motive, usually conquer the world but lets try to be openminded] ", in ya'know complete spite of the fact that he's/she's been doing it for a good 50 something episodes?

Dark Sasami: Is that a trope I hear? Ill Get You Next Time Gadget, anyone?

Lale: I guess so. But let's name it something that works as a Stock Phrase. You Havent Seen The Last Of Me?

YYZ: It's already a trope. We Will Meet Again.

Cassius335: Ill Get You Next Time Gadget would have been funnier. *shrug*

Ruthie A: This reminds me of the quote from Galaxy Quest: "Never give up, never surrender"

Lale: Maybe we can add it. Who said it in what context?

Tabby: Everyone, but specifically "Commander Taggart." It was his catchphrase on the TV show.

Lale: Can someone come up with a quote for this Masaru more illustrative of the trope?

HeartBurn Kid: I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but I think I've got a better page quote, so I'll post it here and see what you guys think:

"It doesn't matter how many times I get knocked down. What matters is how many times I get back up!"

— "Diamond" Dallas Page, WCW Monday Nitro

Ununnilium: Add that one too! We can have more than one. (Heck, just look at Science Fiction Versus Fantasy.)

Lale: The Kyosuke Nabu example looks more like Unstoppable Rage / Heroic Resolve.

Fencedude: He doesn't really "rage" though. But it could fit there as well. But seeing it in action really makes it more like this...and yes, I know I'm not explaining it well.

The Defenestrator: I don't like the dictator quotes. Ordering other people to fight to the death doesn't strike me as exemplifying this trope.

Ninjacrat: Removed

Matter of fact, [the Shinsengumi's] unstoppable determination was so hard, they even considered keeping up the fight after USA dropped the nukes!

as the troper was clearly chronologically confused, or posting from a universe much more interesting that our own.

Fast Eddie: Pulled these two so we could find the actual article...

"Give up? General Specific never says 'I give up!'. Uh... except as an example of what I never say!"

—General Specific, Sheep in the Big City

"I'd back this regiment against everything from eldar to daemons, but even the best soldiers in the Guard couldn't stand long against a full-scale necron incursion. [...] They can't be resoned with, they can't be intimidated, and if they have the numbers on their side they simply can't be stopped. They'll just keep coming until every living thing on this planet is dead!"

—Commissar Ciaphas Cain, Caves of Ice

Specialist290: I'm confused. What exactly happened?

Tanto: Too many quotes spoils the entry.

Fast Eddie: We want to get to the actual article as quickly as possible when reading. Those quotes might work as examples...

Specialist290: Ah, I see. From the way you phrased it, I thought I had broken the search engine or something :p Duly noted.

Mr Death: Taking out this, because it really has nothing to do with the trope:

Subverted in Justice League Unlimited, where Gorilla Grodd's master plan to turn all humans into apes fails. Grodd confidently notes he can win next time, only to be interrupted by Lex Luthor who says that he wanted to take over the Legion of Doom in a few months time, but Grodd's scheme was so dumb, he might as well do it now and shoots Grodd as he seizes the leadership with no objections from the membership.

das: Taking out the Rasputin example, because it has nothing to do with determination and everything with being an unusually durable freak.

Gloating Swine: Or more likely particularly incompetent assassins.

HeartBurn Kid: Can we please stop playing quote roulette on this page? It seems like every single time I come back here, there are different quotes...

CopperAlloy: Sorry, but I can't find this "Mister Monster" ("Mister Monster doesn't give up!") anywhere. Can someone give me a webpage where I could learn more?

Janitor Pulled ...

Vimes? Seriously, how did we mention Big Fido before Sam Vimes, anyway?

... Can anybody find that page where the annoying-ness of "can't believe we haven't mentioned ______' is discussed?

Large Blunt Object: I think it got deleted.

Lale:

"To each of us falls a task, and all the Emperor requires of us Guardsmen is that we stand the line, and die fighting. It is what we do best: We die standing."

General Sturnn, Warhammer 40000 Dawn Of War: Winter Assault

Good as a quote on its own, but not perfect as an example of this trope. At least, the other two are closer to it.

Large Blunt Object: Think I'll use that for No Matter The Cost, when it gets enough examples.

Andygal - there were two mentions of Ichigo from Bleach, I took the comment from the second, added it to the original (which was basically just saying "Ichigo of Bleach" with no comment), and then deleted the second mention.

Chuckg: Removed the Viet Cong and Iraqi insurgents entries. It must be remembered that 'Viet Cong' refers to the domestic South Vietnamese insurgents who supported the North Vietnamese — and they'd lost in Vietnam, having effectively been destroyed as a fighting force by mid-1973. The NVA (North Vietnamese regular army) won victory in Vietnam in 1975, two years after the main American military presence and the vast majority of financial support for South Vietnam had been withdrawn, and did so not by Determination but by the more normal method of having a larger, better-equipped, and better-supplied army than their opponents. As for Iraq, the insurgencies there have yet to make either the US or the new Iraqi government back off and concede them as much as one square foot of territory, which doesn't exactly qualify them as anything other than a futility in action trope.

Austin: Not a bad example, but it strikes me more as a Troper Tale, so I'm moving it here.

Another example from my game is Ninaran. When beaten by the heroes, and hurt but forced to retreat, she begged her dark god Shar for one last chance. Since Shar hates the goddess of death, Shar promised to protect Ninaran from said goddess. Which means Ninaran can never die. Ninaran does not regenerate. She just never actually DIES. So, this means she'll keep trying to kill you, even when she is a HEAD IN A JAR! Her ASHES are still twitching, trying to attack.

Large Blunt Object: I've said it elsewhere, but a Real Life section on pages like this does nothing but invite politically charged arguments, natter and idiotic gushing. It's nothing but wank and drivel and adds nothing. Assuming no objections, cutting it (again) tomorrow. Maybe this time I won't get banned for trying to improve the wiki...

Farseer Lolotea: It says on this page that Plucky Girl is a "slightly variant Distaff Counterpart." However, the Plucky Girl page simply says "The Determinator is the male version of this trope" and "Female Determinator." Is there any good reason these two pages shouldn't just get merged with notes on how the male and female versions tend to differ (much like Jerk Ass Stu versus Tsundere Sue)?

Vampire Buddha: I did some cleanup. Nothing major, mostly just moving a few things around, reducing bullet points, and trimming wordy examples. I did, however, slice out some cruft (22:27 GMT 20/5/2009):

Removed

Stephanie Brown, her life story.

Because I have no idea who Stephanie Brown is.

Somebody with control of the copyright agrees with that assessment.

Natter. Also, there's a fourth movie coming out which takes the third as canon and ignores The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Ricky Bobby, when his career takes off, either wins his races or doesn't finish because he crashes trying to win.

Don't know who Ricky Bobby is.

Wait a second...Vimes "might" get a couple of points? ...Repeat after me please: "THAT! IS!! NOT!!! MY!!!! COW!!!!!"

Natter.

Miles Vorkosigan. Four foot nine inches tall, with brittle bones, he really wants to go into the army. Aged seventeen, he undergoes a Training from Hell in order to be allowed to try the physical... and breaks both his legs a few minutes in. A normal person would choose another career at this point. Miles... finds a side entrance.
- And later, when he asks someone to marry him... he always tries again when he gets a refusal. From three different women. In one case, repeatedly over the course of several years. Just as well the man has charm.

And this Vorkosigan person is...?

Battle Hamster: From the Vorkosigan Saga. I added that back with a link to the series.

Mister Monster's Catchphrase is "Mister Monster Never Gives Up!"

Who is Mister Monster?

This troper was impressed since the miniseries. First fix the hole in your ship. Then fix the hole in your leg. Wow.
- Ummm...if his suit and his ship are both holed, then fixing the ship first makes sense. Otherwise he'd run out of air fast. Adrenaline will do wonderful things.

Natter

The latest season of American Idol has a contestant who seems to this troper like a Yandere waiting to happen, but until she actually snaps on someone, this is the best fitting trope. I say "has" because despite initially seeming to lean towards rejecting her, the judges let her through to Hollywood. Lord help us if she actually survives long enough for the American people to become involved...For starters, despite the seemingly incomprehensible decision by the producers to hold an audition in Puerto Rico this year, this native Puerto Rican flew all the way out to San Francisco so she wouldn't be "just another Puerto Rican". And brought a self-produced album. And described herself with about five hyphens, all relating to the entertainment industry in some way, and at least one repeat, I think. And has a really creepy laugh, which is heard incredibly frequently. Completely batshit. Simon seemed to take it in stride, actually lampshading her antics at one point.
- Update: We're through Group Day, and the rest of the group seems to agree that this girl's absolutely nuts. She made it through to the next round, so I took the liberty of getting her name this time: Tatiana Del Toro. "Of the Bull"? Well, she's pretty bull-headed, alright...or maybe just full of bullshit.
  - Votefortheworst.com has supposed spoilers on who makes the Top 36 (the point where the public starts to vote), and if their sources are correct, she's in. Which makes it all the more likely that this entry will end up getting moved to Yandere. This should be fun...

Pulled because it's probably outdated by now; could someone who pays attention to American Pop Idol clarify whether she's a determinator or yandere?

Until at one point Axel decided to save a Brainwashed and Crazy Lamia, everyone else was pretty much in hopeless state that she can't be saved, especially Kyosuke. Axel's response? "Just.Trust.Me". And then he really did succeed saving her. That's the only case his Determinator status rose back after being dormant for so long, or maybe he's still a Determinator when it comes to stopping Kyosuke becoming Beowulf, which could happen any time if Lamia ends up dead.

Now there's no need for that.

And don't forget that he also loses an eye!
Damn, he goes on fighting until the very end of the series. He could have owned his own son's ass if he wanted to, at the age of 80 or so

Natter which is even more pointless and gratuitous than usual.

Shiki is probably more a of Determinator than Shirou since Shirou has Avalon and therefore almost impossible to kill. At one point, Shiki had a horde of animals biting and actually feeding on him for awhile but, not only did he somehow not die, he could still do some pretty amazing physical feats. Not to mention that he's an anemic whose sharing half of his life energy.
- Shirou only has access to Avalon and it's healing abilities during one (or maybe two) of the game routes. In Heaven's Feel, he's really only got sheer tenacity and badassery keeping him from succumbing to the power of Archer's arm or dying from Kotomine pummeling him. For that matter, the Final Battle of that route (between Shirou and Kotomine) is a battle between two dying determinators. The loser is simply the one who happens to die first.

Natter.

Not to mention that in Breath Of Fire 3, EVERY character can perform this, usually with a quick quip that ranges from confident ('Heh, heh...Must have slipped...') to indignant (Peco's unintelligible shouting) to a simple message for Ryu (Who 'recovers through sheer willpower.')

Irrelevant.

Saren Arterius, top SPECTRE agent, gone rogue. Have fun finding him!
The Geth. An entire armada of bloodthirsty meat-bag hating robots that HK-47 would probably get on well with.
The Reapers. You thought the Geth were bad? The Reapers are so far over the Moral Event Horizon it's not even a speck of light from their side. Just one of them can annihilate a high-tech warship in a single shot from one of it's main guns and has about half a dozen. Unfortunately it looks a bit like a giant squid.

Pointless

Not Badass? He crossed the ocean and faced almost every peril known to a fish to rescue his son. That's pretty Badass, if you ask me.
- It's more of an attitude thing. He's very much one, the way the pelicans heard it...

Natter

This troper actually attends WVU, but still is incredibly impressed by a team that can play - let alone win- that much basketball in that short period of time.

Natter

Close Removed

Shrikesnest: As fond as I am of every protagonist from every video game and movie ever made I don't think they all fit this trope. We need to trim this stuff back. Not every person who chases a goal with a single ounce of resolve is a Determinator. Not even every person who succeeds wildly against seemingly insurmountable odds is a determinator. We could be here all day if that were the case. My understanding of the trope is that someone like Mal from Firefly (is tortured to death and still gets back up to fight ten seconds later) fits the trope, while Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog... come on, guys. I like 'em too, but they don't have to be on every page.

Why was the Sephiroth example removed? Dying for the third time with the line "I will NEVER be memory." is not example of this trope? Clearly he barely considers death a set back.

Shrikesnest: Because he only even vaguely fits the description because he's so popular that they keep reviving him in every new game even distantly related to Final Fantasy VII?

Vampire Buddha: Took out a few examples.

* Frank. Rock. His first appearance had him taking on a tank with two busted hands, getting hit, getting back up, and blowing the tank up with a bazooka.. His only statement when told to move on? "Get up and fight." As one of the numerous one shot characters who tried to replace Easy's topkick noted, "A wall may fall, but brother, not a rock!"

So, um, who is this Frank Rock person?

** Hal Jordan? Are you kidding? Of all the Lanterns, this trope belongs to Guy Gardner. Originally passed over for the GL job, he got it later, was forced to give up his ring, stole a yellow one, broke it fighting Parallax, went out and got an entirely new set of powers, then gave it up to become a Lantern again. He is now Lantern #1 in the Honor Guard specifically because of his utter fearlessness.

Natter.

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