This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
The Defenestrator: I'm surprised Rap isn't on this list, but maybe it just doesn't count as "music." (kidding!)
Tzintzuntzan: I wasn't sure whether to include it. It's definitely reviled, but in a different way than the others. Critics accuse the other genres of sucking as music; they rarely say that about hip-hop, which is the True Authentic Voice of Black America. Hip-hop is instead reviled for supposedly corrupting the youth of America and causing all the crime in inner cities.
Dr Dedman: You seem to be covering all the bases real well. Do you have one on the general outlook of (rock) music critics? They are a facinating bunch, the last of the true believers. I remember reading a book on the "worst songs" (lot of those out) that ripped Herman's Hermits for "Henry VIII". Not because it was repitious or annoying, but because it was some sort of betrayal of the rock revolution circa British Invasion era. It seems that critics go looking for a overiding "truth" to hang their hearts on. Meantime most guys start a band on two criteria: how hard is it to learn to play and will it get me laid?
Tanto: Yeah, this page has "Flame War" written all over it. Does anyone have a bag of marshmallows?
HeartBurn Kid: Wrote a deliberately-negative inclusion of Gangsta Rap in there, just because, in large part, that's how I feel about the subject. Hopefully somebody else who actually likes that stuff will come in here and add a little more balance to it.
Tulling: Not that I claim to be knowledgeable on this subject, but I wonder if Die Dreigroschenoper/The Threepenny Opera and its many adaptations could be considered an exception for the genre of Show tunes.
C Trombley: Basically anything old enough to be played by Charlie Parker is given a free pass. Nohamotyo
Steelhead Tsotha: Removed the mention of Christian hardcore and death metal being considered an exception to the dislike of Christian rock... I can think of few genres of music more reviled than "Christian metal" (not sure if it actually constitutes a genre as much as a gimmick) - it's reviled among some Christians for reaching out a "Satanic" style of music, reviled among metalheads as an attempt to proselytize to them. (exception: Trouble)
Sikon: It's all about music... and I assumed it would be about dead horse TV genres.
Filby: Yeah, seems to me it could conceivably cover other media as well.
Ununnilium: Nice page, IMHO; avoids flaminess well. However, how can disco not be on here yet?
Eric DVH: Adding disco, country and rap.
Ununnilium: Editing the former to to match that "avoids flaminess" feeling.
Christian: Have you guys read any recent music writing? Pitchfork regurally praises Ghostface Killa and there's heaps of disco and synth-flavored pop being praised. People like myself - who champion rock music - are derided as 'rockists'
Drow Lord: Speaking as someone who has to bite his tongue before admitting to be a non-emo liker of Linkin Park and Simple Plan, and who will defend the Backstreet Boys to within an inch of someone else's life, your words confuse me. "Rockists"?
C Trombley: "Rockism" is a theoretical position on the music that all popular music should be based on chord progressions that feel good on guitar. Associated musically with medium tempos, emphasis on guitar timbre (often described as raw, but not shattered glass raw), and poetic but not obscure lyrics. Depending on the distance of a work of music (And here "music" refers to popular music after 1958, the year Link Wray released Rumble) from that model a work is declared to be good or bad. They exist entirely in the mind. Supposedly, they can be associated with racism and sexism, because of the white machismo associated with mid-tempo guitar rock. This is disputed, which is odd because the whole idea only exists in its enemy's head.
I agree with your open mindedness greatly, Drow Lord. Though I grew up with Jazz and Zappa, that doesn't mean that people who grew up with other music should be disdained. And the musicians who made it are worthy of our respect, whether that really attractive women like it (this causes musical hate) or not (inspires musical love).
Ununnilium: That's very silly. (The "rockism", not the respect.)
C Trombley: I don't think it exists in a serious musical mind outside of theory.
Ununnilium: Yeah, it sounds like something made up to express someone's annoyance at fandom.
Ununnilium: Speaking of avoiding flames, from "Emo":
There are no exceptions. The stereotype is, in fact, completely correct.
No. `-`v C'mon, people, this kind of music is all over the radio, surely there must be some that isn't disregarded as just stuff for angsty teens.
MRL: Similarly, the comments for "Exceptions" under "Christmas Pop" seems more like a personal diatribe than an actual view of critical and popular reception.
I've also added Comedy/Novelty to the list, as that has, in my observation, been the subject of dead-horse-perception by amateur and professional music critics.
Ununnilium: Pulling the Christmas bit out as well: There are no exceptions. None. If it fits the mold, it's every bit as reprehensible as the rest of the genre. While satirical music of the genre has come into prominence, it hardly fits because they almost always do it in a different genre, e.g. a punk song tearing apart the holiday as opposed to a Christmas Pop song. Although there was Weird Al's "Christmas At Ground Zero" which is as satirical song about nuclear war done in the style of Christmas music. And Greg Lake's "I Believe In Father Christmas," which sounds Christmassy enough — but the lyrics suggest that secularization and commercialization have sucked all the joy and cheer out of the holiday.
...and editing down the entry.
Later: Die Hard, it is now approximately one million times better. Well-done!
Also, kudos to youhas for the same thing.
Ethereal Mutation: Think it might be worth mentioning somewhere that the attitude against Progressive Rock seems to be dwindling lately, with bands such as Muse becoming hugely popular in spite of their very definite Progressive Rock status?
Kilyle: I cannot tell you how glad I am to have been pointed to this page. It is a hard thing to be open-minded to music these days. I started out country, with Celtic (Enya, Lorena Mc Kennitt) from my mom and Blues (Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, James Taylor) from my dad, plus a smattering of other genres thrown in. I loved Neil Diamond, I loved the Oldies... and I never outgrew the kiddie music, including Raffi.
The two genres I didn't really care for were Rap and Pop; I simply wasn't much exposed to Rock, but just about anything I heard from styles I didn't know the name of was appealing to me (e.g., Reggae). Then the roller rink introduced me to Pop, and I learned to like a few hits; I started analyzing the poetic structure of Rap and appreciating the artistry if not the content; I fell in love with the opera Don Giovanni; and then I delved into foreign-language music and started enjoying genres I never cared for in English (Japanese rap, Finnish metal...).
More recently, Guitar Hero and Rock Band got me interested in rock, and now I'm an enthusiastic Alice Cooper fan; through those games and the Rock Band forum, I learned that certain songs I learned to love via AM Vs are in the Progressive Rock and Ska genres, and now I want to learn more. And so now I have homemade CD's pairing Alice Cooper
, Teräsbetoni, Tim Noah, Neil Diamond, The Oak Ridge Boys, Ray Stevens, and Reel Big Fish... I can enjoy them all, and it makes me wonder what in the world is up with people who won't give half that list the shadow of a chance. But then... being homeschooled, I never did care much about peer approval.
Bring The Noise: Is it just me or are the comments on Queen just one person whining about a band they personally don't like?
- Coyotic Evil: Critics Are Whiners. Most late entries on the list are basically that.
Andrew Rodland: "The electric guitar is actually an electronic instrument": no, it's not, it's an electric one. No electronics at all.
aswilson: Well, yes, an electric guitar by itself isn't electronic, but you're going to have to run it through an electronic amplifier to actually be able to hear it. More to the point, the stereotypical electric guitar sound, and all the various signature sounds, are produced by fooling with the amp to artfully screw up the waveform. Without doing that, it's going to sound basically like a louder acoustic guitar. Because of this, the argument could pretty well be made that an electric guitar is an electronic instrument.
Darth Howie: I think someone needs to work in that Billy Joel is the patron saint of Rock Critic victims. The amount of critical vitriol the guy gets is absurd.
Insanity Prelude: Basically, critics hate everything. It's sad but true.
Lua: *chuckles* Apparently, the only safe genres are blues, jazz, and Britpop. Figures.
(Guy With No Name Yet): We could use some entries on big band music and ska, don't you think? Big band music is mostly relegated to local amateur bands, and ska seems to have fallen off the face of the earth.
movie007: What about polkas? That genre seems to be hated on by just about everyone - and, in fictional works, it's often portrayed as a genre of music that's enjoyed only by the Straw Loser.
Yon Troper: Yeah. Also, we probably need a metalcore/deathcore section; that genre gets an amazing amount of vitriol lately, especially from metalheads.
Cucolla: Oh please REGGAETÓN!!! Everibody claims to hate even in Panama and Puerto Rico people don't admit openly they love it, critics and foreigners just pretend it don't exit, however it menage to become immensely an immensely popular style in Latin America. Daddy Yankee and Don Omar have tons of fans.
Major critics are poor lyrics, and poor rythm but then again crirtics don't talk abour reggaeton ever. However I can swear there is people other than me who listen to reggeaton because the enjoy the lyrics and love the artist...
Is motet a dead horse genre, too?
