Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Ununnilium: Pretty close to Extraordinarily Empowered Girl.

Ununnilium: I reiterate the above, and wonder if this shouldn't go on the Cut List.

Tzintzuntzan: I dunno; the distinction seems pretty clear to me. The Action Girl entries are about female characters with physics-breaking martial arts and Le Parkour skills, while the EEG seems to be about super-powered or destined girls.

Ununnilium: Ah. Well, it'd be helpful if the entries actually mentioned that, so...

Ununnilium: Do you really have to be one of a few girls to be an Action Girl? Doesn't make sense to me.

Gus: Good point. I did a little edit, and pulled out
Avatar: The Last Airbender (with the exception that the gender ratio is pretty balanced and also disregarding the fact that, as of the second season, there are technically more major female characters than the major male characters).
...because it doesn't give us a character to think about. Oh, and, what is the subversion offered by "Katara and Toph Bei Fong", whoever they are?

Ununnilium: They're Action Girls, and the subversion is apparently what you pulled out.

Gus: Ah. So, not so much a subversion of the main point.

Tabby: Idle thought: With all of the subcategories of character types we've got going, would it be just too much to have a secondary index of character types that are always female?

Gus: Interesting. Let's put a trial at Always Female and see how it shakes out, before using it as an index.

Harpie Siren: Hey! Who added back the part about being one of a few female characters and deleted the Avatar example? EDIT: Maybe Katara and Toph belong in Extraordinarily Empowered Girl, but, of course you could be an Extraordinarily Empowered Girl and an Action Girl at the same time ....

Ununnilium: Yeah! I'm puttin' 'em back in.

Taking several things in consideration, I don't see Katara as a Extraordinarily Empowered Girl, due to the fact that she's a bender like everyone else. Now Toph on the other, her abilities are unique, her personality is very independent (they're trying to work on that), she's shown to be able to hold her own, and well, you should really see some of the stuff she can do. Strongest on the team.

psychicsaphie: Agreed with Katara ref. She's not Extraordinarily Empowered. Toph, with her blindness and Daredevil-like skills is. However, both are very skilled 'Benders and step up and kick arse when needed (which is often), which justifies them being on the list of Action Girls. I also removed the "arguably" for Katara. There's nothing arguable about her Action Girl status—challenging the status quo to get training and being the most effective fighter of Aang's gang until Toph came along earns her a place. She's trounced plenty of bad guys on her own. She's just less braggy about it.

Wiki: Huh, another one. Well this is going a long ways back. Basically that "arguable" thing was there because of how she came to be an Action Girl. (Bragginess really doesn't have all that much to do with the trope) Its getts pretty appearent that the creators realized she hadn't done all that much over the course of the 1st season aside from a few 5-second "look I'm helping/what I can do" moments. So in the last like two episodes of the season, her powers were suddenly pumped up offscreen to master levels, enabling her to be Aang's (who we're told fell back simply due to goofing off even though it had been established that he's a much faster learner) teacher-on-the go and contribute a heck of a lot more in the next season. The idea was in the right place, the overall execution, not so much. Still, as time goes on, it becomes a bit less critical.

Lale: Okay, to quote the entry, Katara is:
  • A female character
  • spunky
  • agile
  • can take down bad guys
  • not The Chick.
  • She doesn't sit around waiting to be rescued.
  • She's got moves of her own to make.
The fact that these traits developed over time does not diminish their presence now. Character Development is not a bad thing.

Wiki: No see that's my take, instead of being treated with gradual development, she suddenly became action-y and superskilled at the very last minute through Second-Hand Storytelling. But like I also said, over time, it doesn't stand out as much. But then there's the take on the finale, which at some point both girls got captured but only one escaped all on her own. Then again, that was pretty much for the sake of that 5-second Zutara moment. I guess at the end of the day, that "arguably" thing isn't as neccessary, kinda like the current Kim Possible. Still, I'd take out Suki, though contributive to the storyline, she just isn't prominent enough a character. Probably could through in "Ozai's Angels" though.

Lale: Nowhere in the description does it refer to a character's prominence, I'm just saying.

Ununnilium: edit edit How about this?

Wiki: To Lale- A main cast member or a regular is just usually the standard for most of the stuff here.

To Uni-etc: Sure.

Lale: Wiki, sorry, but actually... no. Not most of what I've read.

Wiki: It depends on the show.

Scrounge: Occasionally a female villain pops up who fills these criteria... She may be another female villain type in addition, but it's worth noting that if you get distracted by her hourglass figure, it's your own fault when you can't figure out where your teeth landed. Is it worth creating a Dark Action Girl page for this, since what we have for Action Girl seems to specify heroine?

Tabby: Splitter though I usually seem to be, I'd say lump this one.

Ununnilium: I would agree, and modify the current entry to suit.

Scrounge: Tried... Looks kinda sloppy though. I could use some help cleaning it up, but it might turn out that it needs to be split after all, simply because evil action girls just seem to be more violent about it...

Scrounge again: Okay, this is a couple weeks later now, and we're getting some bad-girl examples like Shego and Blackarachnia. I'm wondering... How many villains should this page have before we add it to Villains, since it's already in heroes. That was really my main reason for wanting a separate page for the Dark Action Girls.

Lale: It's conversations like this that make Serious Business Truth in Television.

Scrounge: Isn't the wiki here so we can look into this sort of thing? I just had a noteable example on the side of bad, and this entry started off as a "good girls" thing.

smith2000: Buffy` status as Action Girl is disputable.When she has her Slayer-powers, she canīt stand it (Becoming 2:"Do-do you think I chose to be like this? Do you have any idea how lonely it is, how dangerous? I would *love* to be upstairs watching TV or gossiping about boys or... God, even studying! But I have to save the world... again), when she loses them she is distraught(Helpless), runs away in Becoming 2 and in Episode "Anne" doesnīt have enough fortitude not to intervene. IMHO, Buffy is more like Jossīs personal blonde joke rather than true Empowered Female.
Why is there a link to Dark Magical Girl with the Fire Emblem 7 villains? They're nothing like the trope; maybe a really deluded fan can make that argument for Ursula, but Limstella is an absolutely devoted Dragon with almost no emotions, and Sonia is The Vamp and a Femme Fatale. Deleting it. Although, it would actually work reasonably well for Selena Flourspar...
Wondering if Cagalli Yula Athha of Gundam SEED would qualify? Not in Destiny, since her role isn't at all combat-oriented, but in SEED she held her own as a pilot despite being a Natural and completely untrained, and she had some truly Action Girl moments with Desert Dawn. She also fits those traits at the Katara debate to a tee. On the other hand, because she's a civilian Natural, in the end she still didn't measure up to Kira and Athrun. To put it more broadly, is the spunky personality and refusal to act as a Distressed Damsel more important than actually being one of the most powerful characters?
And then there's Big Barda, who's practically a beautiful seven-foot walking tank. And her husband, Mr. Miracle, loves her that way. This editor REFUSES to believe she'd dead.
  • Per Word of God (er, Grant Morrison), None of Death of the New Gods is in continuity with Final Crisis until he establishes it, so as long as that's going on, Barda's status is "quantum zombie."

J: Why did the references to Honor Harrington get removed?
Fast Eddie: Carved off another foot and a half of quotes from the top of the article. If pictures and quotes move the beginning of the stuff some troper actually wrote below the fold, they get cut or moved. More likely cut. Please see Administrative Policy.

Some Sort Of Troper: For posterity, the crowner for the page picture. 11 for Lara Croft, 4 for the next nearest competitor.
Cherry Chix: For God's sake!!! Why do Naruto fans insist on putting the WHOLE female cast in under this trope. They are not even faux action girls, because they are not even supposed to fight. They only have two options, become medical-nin (not the Combat Medic variety) or Stay in the Kitchen. NO example given can compare they to the other (WAY more competent) girls of this trope. It's just like they don't read the page description. Deleting it right NOW!!

  • Orihime: Ahahaha. Re-adding Anko and Hinata since they've done more than enough to deserve a mention. Nice try, misogynist: just because they don't go around biting off men's heads doesn't mean they're less physically strong.