This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Working Title: Not Actually An Aesop: From YKTTW
joey jojo: "Arguably His Dark Materials would be an example, since it was written because Pullman was disgusted by the preachiness of The Chronicles Of Narnia, but it came across as being even more anvilisciously anti-religious than Narnia was pro-religious."
Nope, Pullman hated it for it’s pro-religious message not for the heavy handed way it was executed, sadly. Anyway he once said he wanted to “kill the idea of god” in the minds of his readers so his Aesop is hardly accidental. Unless anyone disagrees I’m pulling it
- But episode writer Cath Treganna "Enjoys a good fillet steak as much as the next person", If You Know What I Mean. This is Torchwood, after all.
...what, precisely, do you mean?
Gracie Lizzie: Pulled it, they were probably trying to make a "heh, meat means penis" joke but while I am sure Cath Treganna likes, well, that the "fillet steak" sentence just means she likes fillet steak.
Artector: The last example about Wall-E seems to be missing some 'aesopage' in my opinion. I also interperted it as having major themes against obesity. And with how that movie is made, how is there any other way to watch it than seeing at least one of those?
Idle Dandy: I'm for pulling all the Biblical stuff. This trope is about what the author intended, which is not something we can conclude with certainty about anything in the Bible. All in favor?
Vampire Buddha: Pulled natter ( 00:24 GMT, 6/5/2009)
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- After reading a few of Card's books and articles, this troper tend to think that Card just love the idea of a subtle Aesops allowing the author morals is visible but not obvious. He is unfortunately, as a writer, not as subtle as he'd like to be.
- The other ancient Greeks be damned, this troper believes that Aristophanes had an unusually high opinion of women. The Magistrate who rails against feminine foolishness and vice is clearly meant to be a buffoon, and Lysistrata makes excellent arguments that women should have a voice in the running of the state.
- It's pretty much both, but the biggest Author Filibuster in the book is a "television is bad, books are good" speech.
- He has also gone on to say that ebooks smell like burning fuel.
- Faber said that the important thing (which people wanted to avoid) was to show the "pores on the fabric of life," which he said could theoretically be done on the parlors (television), too. Books were a better scapegoat because of the effort they required, and the parlors kept people entertained. It was what the Lowest Common Denominator wanted.
- That is a bit of an exaggeration. This troper, having read and discussed the poem many times with many people, has never even heard that before. Though it may be a valid interpretation, this particular poem is somewhat famous for not having any strongly identifiable meaning.
- Well, it's true that if you say, "Oh, don't worry, I've done this before. Really, I have. You have nothing to worry about. It'll be just fine," not one person on earth will take you seriously. We're conditioned to see anvils as the author's opinion of his opponents.
- Does anyone actually believe him?
- Yes. It's not exactly like it's a bad message or anything... If he really did intend for the movie to have environmentalist themes, he probably would have said so.
- Not to mention that you can just as easily read right-wing messages about nanny states and personal responsibility into the film as well. Ultimately, people are going to think what they want, but in the end it's still just a great love story with robots.
- As long as we're debating this: considering that when Wall-E finally finds the humans, and their sedentary lifestyles have turned them into fat people (Oh, God no!) being shepherded around by a cheap HAL 9000 clone... this may be one of the few examples of An Anvilicious Accidental Aesop.
- They also forget that "solution" can mean "answer" OR "something dissolved in something else", i.e. alcohol dissolved in water.
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Twin Bird: Removed "Because I Got High" because it will take Word of God to convince me that's not a Spoof Aesop.
- It's a lot easier to make a strong argument that the lord of the rings is conservative screed and actually concerns the FIRST World War, specifically the withering of the British Nobility and class structure. Again, this is likely unintentional. But Death of the Author says...
I direct you to Lord Of The Rings.
- Fahrenheit 451 had an accidental aesop for its own creator, who originally intended for it to be about censorship, but then changed his mind and decided that it was about how television makes you stupid.
This seems like more a Take That! than anything having to do with this trope.
- Orson Scott Card may do this at least semi-intentionally. The apparent Aesops against organized religion, sexual repression, and kneejerk intolerance soften you up for the Author Filibusters in favor of Mormonism, abstinence, and praying away the gay that come in later on.
If it's intentional, it's not accidental.
- Also, many people take the line "Good fences make good neighbors" in the poem "Mending Wall" as the message of the poem when Frost is actually decrying the barriers people build up netween them.
This is more Isn't It Ironic?.
