Markup View

Author: raithe

Apr 14th 2013 at 5:37:22 PM

@helterskelter

"I'm really not. In all honestly, nothing about my description implies this. I don't know what to tell you; almost all of the arguments you've made thus far have been about deliberately ignoring things I've said. For instance, the lifestyle thing. I've said I think three times that it is not required, but is rather a common pattern in this trope. In the same way a Significant Green Eyed Redhead tends to be a love interest to the hero--that is not required, it's just a very regular pattern."

I wasn't referring to the description in this case.  I was referring to your previous remarks "For instance the Twilight example--first, because Betty And Veronica are almost never actually dangerous. When a guy has a love triangle, he is never helpless. The element of danger is present in both guys, but as I explained, one is a lot more dangerous and fulfills the patterns of a Scoundrel a lot more than the other does."

I apologize for missing your definition of edgy, and I think that you have now defined dangerous: "more about the emotional danger. The threat on your place in the world, your home, society's outlook on you, etc. If not that, he is more emotionally tumultuous and risks a wild and unstable relationship."  Having a definition of dangerous was more what I was trying to get at.

I apologize for frustrating you.  That was not my intent.  I was trying to get a better definition between this trope and BettyAndVeronica, and I obviously was not doing very well.

Just so I am sure I understand it, let me reiterate your proposed distinctions between this trope and BettyAndVeronica.

1.  The lifestyle of the chooser after the choice figures into it more prominently in this trope,  especially with the scoundrel being a threat to that lifestyle, unlike the Veronica.
2.  The gentleman will be the preference of friends and family, while the Betty, while not disliked, will not be preferred over the Veronica.
3.  Most importantly, the Scoundrel threatens the chooser's current position.  If he is chosen, then the chooser will be treated differently by society/or she will be in a much less stable relationship.  An Archie, however, will likely not be treated particularly differently, nor will he have to change much about his lifestyle.

If there is anything that I was wrong about or missed, please correct me.

Related to the Norrington/Will example, does this trope cover a situation equivalent to, for example, Cinderella, such that one of the two love interests offers an improvement in society, or only ones that would be a loss for the heroine?

Can we come up with a name or shorthand for the female choosing in this scenario, similar to the Archie for BettyAndVeronica?

Is there still intention to make this like BettyAndVeronica in that it can apply to both genders, or has that been discarded?  If so, should we make the same change to BettyAndVeronica?