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Rainbow Double Dashs Lunaverse back to reviews
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I'TS A MEH FIC.
Average.

I had read all the stories, both from the author and guest writers and by far my favorites are: Carrot Top of the Line and Hard Bargain, but I haven't put them in my favorites because they are so-so. The structure of the stories in general are good, the plot easy to follow and had a very rich worldbuilding. The main problem that made it so average and had so many people that dislike it are the characters and their interaction. For me the two issues are:

Treatment of the canon characters: Is not that their characters are different, is that there is almost a bashing-like portrayal of them. Not one of them is likeable or even sane. Either they are anti-social wrecks (Twilight, Applejack or Flutterhsy), parodies of themselves (Pinkie and Rarity) or absolute assflansk (Rainbow) and the explanation for this are flimsy at best.

Trixie as element of Magic: With trixie there is a more tell instead of show of why she should be the element of Magic. Why would luna made her apprentice, being a barely average unicorn? Why would she become the spark of friendship with the other elements? There is a fear that trixie will eventually push away her friends and I can say she is totally right. Trixie is a selfish, self-centered, egotistically, socially stump character and while she had good intentions and had helped (or tried) the others several times, I can't wrap my head why the others accepted her as a friend in the longest night, outside of the plot-say-so. Even then, there have been many instances that had shown that most of the time Trixie is a terrible friend to have (sushing rain drops during rainbow abuse, using Lyra several times as a prop, demanding 25% of Carrot Top would be price for helping her etc...) that would have made others force her to change or just break the relationship for good. She wants to protect the others and she cares about them, but that is not enough for a friendship. If she was only a friend like carrot top and berry punch that go along but are not close-close I could understand, but she is the holder of Magic (friendship) itself and their relationship is the base of the entire series. Even the best friendships are hard and a person like Trixie having so loyal friends is, well, silly. Cheap sitcom silly.

Do I hate the series? No, but it's also not something I would recommend.
  • Treatment of Mane-6: We fixed this later on. That's all I'm saying. I don't want to do this anymore.

  • On Trixie: Longest Night, Longest Day makes it pretty clear that Luna apprenticed Trixie in order to teach her politics, sociology, rhetoric, etc., with the eventual goal of elevating her into the Night Court. She's also learning some magic, but that's not Luna's goal, nor Trixie's. In other words, Trixie's apprenticeship to Luna and her being worthy of the Element of Magic are almost entirely unrelated.

Trixie is bad at friendships, yes. Season 1 is about her in particular, and the rest of her friends in general, getting better at friendships. Unlike Friendship is Magic, where the six basically become unbreakable BF Fs from the pilot forwards (Pinkie/Rainbow Dash is the only one that was shown to be in any way rocky, and that for only a tiny portion of one episode), the friendships of the Luna-6 has to grow over time. Using one of your own examples, at the start of Carrot Top Season, you're right, Trixie asks for 25% of whatever Carrot Top makes. But remember that by fic's end, she only ended up taking a tiny fraction of that. Or, using Lyra as a prop. The entire course of Helping...Hands? begins with Trixie, yes, using Lyra as an experiment to test out a zebra magic spell when she really shouldn't have. Just as though this were a fic about Twilight messing up a spell, though, Trixie learns and admits by fic's end that she shouldn't have done that and that she was wrong. Also that's, like, the 3rd Lunaverse story, so like I said: growth over time. Trixie by season's end would never have done the same thing.

(And if you're referring to the opening of Boast Busted where Lyra is her test-audience...well, she has to practice her act, so I don't see what's wrong with her asking Lyra to be her test-audience, especially since Lyra was in no danger this time)

It is noteworthy, I feel, that each of your examples takes place before the halfway point of Season 1.

My point is, just as Applejack needed to learn to be more honest about her needs and limitations in Applebuck Season, just as Rainbow Dash needed to learn to learn to be more loyal and trusting towards her friend in Fall-Weather Friends, just as Fluttershy needed to learn kindness' limits in Keep Calm and Flutter On, just as Pinkie Pie needed to learn that sometimes you need to dial back on the laughter and treat things seriously in Babycakes, just as Rarity needed to learn to be less selfish in Sweet and Elite...Trixie has needed to learn how to be a better friend. It's just that, as we are constructing a series with continuity rather than a series with episodes that are supposed to be watch-able in any random order (mostly), we're trying to show growth over time, rather that have personality-changing events in a single episode (which then have a 50-50 shot of being forgotten because of Status Quo)
comment #21722 RainbowDoubleDash 26th Oct 13
It's almost like you're always lurking close by in the review section to defend your fic's honor.
comment #21726 kay4today 26th Oct 13
Yep indeed seems like it.
comment #21729 qtjinla15 26th Oct 13
Gods forbid that anyone could ever dislike something that you wrote. Clearly this is a crime against the heavens.
comment #21731 Lightflame 26th Oct 13
So...does that mean that you three lurk around to see if I'm lurking around so that you can respond if I respond?

:p

No, it's perfectly okay not to like the fic. But the reviews can be responded to, so I don't see the problem in doing so. There's nothing wrong with providing counter-points, and nothing says that I have to just sit around and wordlessly accept whatever anyone says.
comment #21739 RainbowDoubleDash 27th Oct 13
Oh, and checking on this TV Tropes page is actually a part of my daily activities, along with the webcomics I read (usually it's just "pop in, has anything been added? No? Done." Occasionally I add some stuff myself, of course). As the series creator, I like to keep up-to-date on what's being recorded here. Surely you don't begrudge me that?
comment #21740 RainbowDoubleDash 27th Oct 13
I haven't ever responded to you in any of the other reviews, so I'm not sure what you're talking about, but good to know that my assumption was true!
comment #21741 kay4today 27th Oct 13
I wouldn't really call it lurking, though, since I'm reasonably active on the TV Tropes pages themselves.

Again, series creator. It's sort of my job.
comment #21744 RainbowDoubleDash 27th Oct 13
Considering this is my first comment to one your responses, same here. I don't lurk.
comment #21745 qtjinla15 27th Oct 13
It's your job to comment on every review of your work that you come across? Gee, being an author must be tough.
comment #21746 kay4today 27th Oct 13
As a fellow fanfic writer, I understand that accepting criticism is tough and that it is much better to rebuke every attempt to explain faults in your work. Truly you are burdened.
comment #21747 Lightflame 28th Oct 13
It's your job to comment on every review of your work that you come across? Gee, being an author must be tough.

Well, on the TV Tropes page, certainly; it's not like they crop up very often. Though now I'm here mostly for the pleasant conversation.

As a fellow fanfic writer, I understand that accepting criticism is tough and that it is much better to rebuke every attempt to explain faults in your work. Truly you are burdened.

Psst. Your sarcasm is showing.
comment #21753 RainbowDoubleDash 28th Oct 13
We should do lunch.
comment #21754 Lightflame 28th Oct 13
Might be difficult unless you live in Massachusetts.
comment #21756 RainbowDoubleDash 28th Oct 13
Treatment of Mane-6: We fixed this later on. That's all I'm saying. I don't want to do this anymore.

... No, you didn't. It really hasn't changed all that much, to the point that Status Quo is law seems more like it. You can say they had changed and put it in your responses, but even by Crisis of Two Equestrias (which we only see Twilight or at least were I left) she is the same wrecked paranoiac bookworm and Trixie is still most often than not a assflank.

You could say that it's happening like Fluttershy which characterization grew slowly over three years and was static in several of her episodes until "Putting your hoof down", but then again, the most I have seen of any type of character development is Rainbow Dash and Applejack being somewhat descent to Carrot top and Fluttershy can somewhat speak with Rarity in their fics... but they are still incredible messed up. And from your characters: Lyra is still madly in love with bon-bon and wanting to become a great musician (didn't see the opportunities opened by her recital in helping hands yet), rainbow drops is still a ball of anger but kind and workaholic pegasus (I don't know if her fic about her anger issues had moved from visiting the quack psychiatrist) Cherilee, well we know she was a bounty-hunter and had a great youth, but we knew that from your character page in the first place and Derpy is still Derpy... yay.

Seriously, if you are going to respond to this reviews, Show-don't tell. In your works.

There is a reason why YMMV hasn't changed in several months.

You could argue until the sun is down that your characters had grown, but they really haven't. What mid-season? Until Longest night, the one who had changed the most is Carrot top and that's because she learned to accept her generosity. The others are the same ponies from the star when they appeared in bust buster when they argued with Princess Luna for the Grand Galloping Gala fiasco.

But seriously, just as a question: Why do you have to make the Mane six so mess up? The most vocal of your critics keep pointing this out. Yes, your first fic had twilight and it make kind of sense, but why the rest had to turn to such horrible, horrible parodies of themselves? What purpose do they create for your fic? Is to make your protagonist look better? Is because you didn't like how they were portrayed in canon? Is because you believe that they can only work in an idealistic scenario like Equestria-one, as I had read are theories for Pinkie and Fluttershy deep rooted problems? I mean, you managed to make Silver spoon like— No sorry, that's the cadance story. Mixed up. Great story, you should read it (I think you inspired it). It's like your story, but without the canon hurting, faster character development and a lot of youtube links/lyrics.

But seriously, Why are Twilight, Applejack, Rainbow-Dash, Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie so almost bash, broken caricatures of what made their canon counterparts likeable, down to earth natural flawed role models?*

I don't say you should change it. Your story, your world, but that's the root of the problems those who don't like your story keep complaining (myself included). I mean, couldn't your characters work without having that damage oor showing they grow better. I mean, Applejack is still are sick deluded pony in the end and Rainbow keep screwing everybody left and right(which I think you pointed out is part of your style of writing with adversaries in a response of why Guilda got away unpunished, and Corona/Zecora present state).

  • Yes, I didn't forget Rarity. So far she hasn't done anything that can be called terrible, if only because she had the least appearances of any other character in your entire verse.
comment #22037 PhilosopherwithoutaJob 15th Nov 13
As you like.

Seriously, if you are going to respond to this reviews, Show-don't tell. In your works.

'kay.

  • Applejack's first appearance in LNLD had her as a traditionalist, conservative pony resistant to change. Carrot Top Season expanded on this in a way that frankly I'm not very comfortable with. However, starting with her brief appearance in Tales of Ponyville and moving on to her appearances in At the Grand Galloping Gala and Magic Tutor, her personality has shifted to be much more in-line with as it is presented in the show.
  • Pinkie Pie I never presented as being any different from her cannon portrayal. Nevertheless, in Ill Communication Pinkie Pie is taught that on occasion she needs to slow down and explain what she's thinking, while at the same time everypony else learns that she shouldn't be dismissed out-of-hand. In Tales of Ponyville she is shown hanging out with Ditzy Doo in a way identical to her canon portrayal; from that point forward, she's shown to be no different from the show no matter what you want to claim. The non-canon-but-I-am-considering-canonizing-fic Pinkie and Bluie even goes so far as to put her in a relationship with Prince Blueblood following the events of At the Grand Galloping Gala. And to be completely honest, in Longest Night, Longest Day, I think she comes off as better than in the first episode of Fi M. After all, in that she threw a party for Twilight, but didn't care when Twilight showed no interest in the party, nor did she stop or nor check up on Twilight after Twilight left the party. In LNLD, Pinkie threw a party for Trixie, but Trixie stuck around and enjoyed it. Pinkie didn't come across as a partyhollic ass.
  • Fluttershy in Longest Night, Longest Day is a complete wreck, unable to bear being around anypony besides Rainbow Dash, Ditzy Doo, and Dinky Doo. However, in every appearance since, she has been going out further in the world. In Carrot Top of the Line, she grew comfortable around Carrot Top. In Tales of Ponyville she added the entire Ponyville spa staff, as well as struck up a friendship with Rarity. At the Grand Galloping Gala established that she was comfortable around Trixie as well. Finally and most recently, A Concert for Ponyville added Octavia Philharmonica and saw Fluttershy willing to appear before a crowd of people in order to help her animal friends.
  • Rarity came across as a bit of a bitch in Longest Night, Longest Day. However, she helped out Carrot Top with her problem in Carrot Top of the Line, and was called out on & recognized she had to correct her negative qualities in Tales of Ponyville. She also worked with Trixie to create bird nests in Trixie's Winter Wrap-up.
  • Rainbow Dash has yet to be called out in the way she acts. Then again, in-universe it's not exactly treated as much of a problem. Raindrops compliments Rainbow Dash's skill about as often as she bemoans her laziness, usually in the same paragraph, but people always seem to focus on the latter for some reason. Dash is kind of a jerk; that's just who she is in canon and it's what I love about her.
  • Twilight became an antagonist because it's fun, and I liked the character arc built by the fics Boast Busted, Elements of Insanity, A Chance Encounter, Countdown to Crisis, and Crisis on Two Equestrias, with a conclusion in Magic Tutor. If you can't see Twilight's character growth over the course of these fics, then I cannot help you. She slowly realizes that she made a big mistake in Boast Busted and comes to terms with the fact that she's going to have to own up to it.

Why do you have to make the Mane six so mess up?

It wasn't the original intention. I wanted them to be just a little bit worse so that if need be they could serve as antagonists, but I never wanted things to go as far as they did and wanted them to be able to serve in positive lights as well. What happened early on in the Lunaverse is a lot of authors decided to milk the idea of the Mane6 as antagonists, which created the perception that we hate them. We don't, we were just enjoying seeing them from a different angle, but we went too far. We've been fixing this, and I really hope that my list above shows just how much we've been fixing this.

Now then, that's the Mane-6. As for the Luna-6...you're right, for the most part, they haven't really had much character development. Because this is an ongoing series and Season 1 was far more about trying to establish their characters, which was a slow process over the court of the season as we were slowly putting the world they lived in together. We actually talked this over on the forums when we were discussing potential fics: Season 1 is about establishing the status quo; Season 2 is where we start to shake things up.

Having said that...I'd argue that however little character growth you see in the Lunaverse, there hasn't exactly been a whole ton of it in Fi M, either. Every Fluttershy episode is basically the same. Every Applejack episode IS the same, apart from "Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000." Twilight in Lesson Zero was facing basically the same problem as Twilight in It's About Time, most of a season later (that is, she was panicking and worrying over something relatively small, and focused on little things to the exclusion of big things, etc). Status Quo remains God in Fi M as much as it appears to in the Lunaverse.
comment #22040 RainbowDoubleDash 16th Nov 13
Not really related to anything but

put her in a relationship with Prince Blueblood

all of my what.
comment #22041 kay4today 16th Nov 13
Believe it or not, it's actually pretty natural given the narrative, and they make a great couple. Hence why I'm considering canonizing the fic that expands on their relationship that was hinted at beginning in At GGG
comment #22042 RainbowDoubleDash 16th Nov 13
I repeat what kay said.

What.

Explain this to me over that lunch I promised.
comment #22050 Lightflame 16th Nov 13
Short version is that, in At GGG, Blueblood was at the Gala basically looking for a date, as he was in the maneverse. Simultaneously Raindrops is trying to protect him from being truth-poisoned by Zizanie even as she's trying to convince Zizanie that she's truth-poisoning him (it's a complicated plot). Blueblood is unaware of this, in any event. Raindrops' plan to do so is basically by becoming Blueblood's date.

Blueblood ends up noticing two mares on the Gala floor and isn't quite sure which to pick: Raindrops, or a unicorn pony heavily implied to be Rarity. As he's about to make his choice, however, Pinkie Pie bumps into him. Blueblood decides that she's not exactly bad-looking, if not his usual type, and so asks her to spend the Gala with him (with Blueblood also hoping it'll lead to hanky-panky later; further, it's implied that his special talent of direction was at work here by helping him be in the right place at the right time to end up with Pinkie).

Poor stallion has no idea what he gets into. Pinkie Pie basically talks his ear off (I verbatim lifted her Chimmycherrychanga rant, as well as lifted significant lines from Pinkie Watches Paint Dry, and then finally made up a rant about the lack of a difference between pancakes and flapjacks) the whole night while he tries to get drunk. Pinkie also, however, keeps him from drinking any of the truth poison (without realizing it), by drinking it herself (without realizing it), not that there's any notable difference in how she acts once the poison is activated.

By Gala's end, Pinkie is also a bit tipsy and the two leave and go back to Blueblood's place. Next time we see Pinkie, she's hopping out of Blueblood's place and is promising to bring blueberries and syrup next time.

Thing is that their personalities actually played pretty well off of each other, or more precisely Pinkie is a positive influence on Blueblood that helps him come across as more than just "scheming courtier #4" and shows us that he just might have a decent side to him somewhere. An author named Talon and Thorn, for one of the Lunaverse's writing events, wrote a story called Pinkie and Bluie that shipped the two outright beyond the one-night stand of At GGG. It's become a semi-canon ship in the Lunaverse since then.
comment #22059 RainbowDoubleDash 16th Nov 13
  • Oops, correction. I didn't make up the pancake/flapjack rant, I pulled it off of Google. I forget what I searched to find it, though. I think it was just "I need a pointless rant"
comment #22060 RainbowDoubleDash 16th Nov 13
I should check this out. If it's well-written it could be hilarious.
comment #22062 kay4today 17th Nov 13
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