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Severen
topic
01:06:56 PM Dec 25th 2010
"Modern Finland is a wealthy and stable nation, one of those Northern European countries that accord their citizens more freedom than the United States and are smug about it."

Really? This is news to me. Just what freedoms do they have that we don't?

Drugs are just as illegal in Finland as they are in the US (the punishments for possession may not be as severe, but lesser punishments do not equal more freedom). Finland does NOT have free speech, as shown by their internet censorship and Blasphemy Laws. In fact, several European countries have blasphemy laws, as well as limited speech in general. Taxes are high, the cost of living is high, and, while Finland has lighter gun control than most of their neighbors, they are still stricter than the US. Even gay marriage doesn't add up, since only select European countries allow it, and Finland is not one of them (though that may change soon). Plus, there are certain US states that allow gay marriage.

So, with all that said, just what freedoms do the Finns have that those of us here in the US don't have?
87.95.24.175
08:03:03 AM Dec 28th 2010
Freedom from crappy security gropes.
Severen
11:26:52 PM Jan 3rd 2011
One, the "gropes" are not mandatory. Two, considering what they plan on doing, those pat downs seem tame by comparison. Three, your comment did not answer my question in the least.
Severen
02:09:29 PM Apr 13th 2011
I've since removed the above line, for two reasons: one, it's simply not true. Two, it's a clearly opinionated piece on a page where it doesn't belong.

Also, here's the latest progress of Finland's "freedoms".
ameliette
01:19:06 PM May 25th 2011
I'm from Finland myself, and I definitely do not smug about having more right than an average US teenager. How many Mc Donald's have banned minors from entering after 6 PM without their parents in USA? At least few Mc Donald's in Finland have done that. And I haven't even heard about about that X-ray scanning based on religion. I really thought we wouldn't go so low - at least not before US.
DataEntity
04:26:01 AM Oct 12th 2011
First off we should remember to disconnect public policy from actions of private companies. Otherwise the general track record becomes rather muddy on a global scale.

While I eagerly admit to Severen that Finnish law has much to be pruned, I view freedom in the 'States quite suspect. You most certainly don't hold the rights of foreign nationals to a high standard.

And you don't seem to have any rule of law, as much as rule of capital. As shown by your runaway legal system.

Also your sources suck, having dated or biased information.

As a conclusion it could be said that neither Finland nor the 'States are free enough.
Severen
12:17:40 AM Nov 25th 2011
edited by Severen
"First off we should remember to disconnect public policy from actions of private companies."

Um, if you're referring to the airport piece, I have news for you. I'm not sure about Europe, but here in the US, private companies cannot enact discriminatory rules on the basis of race. It's illegal. No airport can treat people differently (hence why all people are treated that way).

"I view freedom in the 'States quite suspect."

You and a million others. Not that it matters.

"You most certainly don't hold the rights of foreign nationals to a high standard."

Said "rights" often contain limitations and loopholes that allow the government to suspend them whenever they see fit. And the public is often fine with that. This disturbs me. It should disturb you.

"As shown by your runaway legal system."

Blah, blah, blah. I wouldn't want to be under any other legal system, that's for sure.

"Also your sources suck, having dated or biased information."

"Biased" doesn't make it any less true.

"As a conclusion it could be said that neither Finland nor the 'States are free enough."

We could be more free, but I remain confident that the US is more free than Europe (or any other country or land, for that matter) will ever be. And I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. Mainly because most Europeans (as well as Australians and Canadians) that I have personally known seem to have a different idea of what constitutes "freedom". Here in the US, when we say "freedom", we mean freedom in the individual sense. Freedom to take the reigns, to do things your way; freedom of responsibility, to go out into the world with your own decisions, and live your life as you see fit, with no one able to tell you how to live it. In these other countries, be they Canada, Australia, or those in Europe, "freedom" seems to indicate freedom from responsibility. Freedom from having to pay for healthcare; freedom from having to be exposed to second-hand smoke; freedom from having to worry about financial decisions. In the US, such "freedoms" are associated with being a child.

So, maybe I'm biased with the American definition. Still, I'm sticking with it, as well as my decision to cut that line from this page.
Jusamies
08:22:58 AM Mar 25th 2012
Good thing that got removed. I disagree with Severen about quite a few of his points, but that line is biased on a page, that should be purely objective.
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