That's okay. You're here now and that's what matters.
This hasn't really generated much discussion, so I've asked
for some feedback on ATT to see if a consensus can be built on which trope to use.
Taken from here and the ATT page:
- This thread: "Ray of Hope" Ending: 2; Downer Ending: 1
- ATT: "Ray of Hope" Ending: 2; Downer Ending: 0
So, "Ray of Hope" Ending is currently favoured. I don't know if that's enough of a consensus.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
As per the advice of the ATT thread, I've posted the example to the Is This An Example? thread for input.
Okay, there was one response from the Is This An Example? thread, and advice to just go ahead and call it.
In total:
- This thread: "Ray of Hope" Ending: 2; Downer Ending: 1
- ATT: "Ray of Hope" Ending: 2; Downer Ending: 0
- Is This An Example?: "Ray of Hope" Ending: 1; Downer Ending: 0
Given that the preference is for "Ray of Hope" Ending, I'm going to put that trope back on the page and remove Downer Ending.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I really think Downer Ending fits more, since the end is VERY bleak.
Musician/Composer
I would like to bring up a potential example, as usual.
- You Can't Go Home Again: Atlas and Mantle are finally destroyed at the end of this episode, leaving the refugees and survivors (including the surviving Schnees) searching for a new home in Vacuo.
Thoughts?
Edited by gjjones He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself. Hide / Show Replies
Go for it, Trash the Set may qualify too; Both the Mantle & Atlas 'Sets' are destroyed
There's no claim they're searching for a new home in Vacuo. The reason they chose Vacuo was because it was the only place that had enough Huntsmen available to deal with the fallout of a kingdom's worth of negativity being dumped on their feet.
The only way You Can't Go Home Again applies to this episode (since it has to be episode-specific to make it onto a recap page) is that, even if they return to establish a new kingdom in Solitas in the future, it will not be either Mantle or Atlas, or the location of the old kingdom because, not only are the two cities destroyed, but the location is now submerged. So, a new kingdom will have to be in a new location, even if it's in Solitas.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
All right. How about this?
- You Can't Go Home Again: Atlas and Mantle are finally destroyed at the end of the episode, which leaves the surviving Atlesian refugees (including the surviving Schnees) stranded in Vacuo.
That's fine. I'd change "on Vacuo" to "in Vacuo", however.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Got it. I've corrected the oversight in my earlier post.
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Looks good to me.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I'd like to bring something up on the Dramatic Irony. Can it really be stated that Cinder tricked Neo into blaming Ruby for Roman's death? From a certain point of view the blame can be placed on Ruby. If she hadn't been on the top of the airship Roman would have never have had to go out and confront her, putting himself out in the open. It really is no different then blame Cinder for getting him involved. So is it really tricking her or just a matter of perspective?
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Neo was on the plane with them, remember. The fight was Ruby versus Roman/Neo until Ruby took Neo out of the equation. Yet Neo concluded the fault and blame lay with Cinder — who wasn't there.
I think the fandom's assumption is that Neo blamed Cinder because she recruited them in the first place. If Cinder hadn't got Roman involved in Salem's plan, he wouldn't have been involved in the invasion.
What we know is that when Neo tracked Cinder down to enact her revenge, Cinder stopped her and redirected her vengeance onto Ruby for her own personal gain. What we don't know is why Neo went along with that.
Personally, I think it's a shoehorned example. Neo knows that Cinder wants her to kill Ruby because Salem ordered Cinder not to do it. Cinder was open about the fact she wants Neo to be Loophole Abuse. What we don't know is why Neo let Cinder convince her to go after Ruby instead of Cinder. Ruby doesn't know Neo's motives. That's it. If we turned every single example of a hero not knowing a villain's motive into Dramatic Irony, the trope would be overloaded and would have decayed into People Sit on Chairs.
So, while our issues with the entry are slightly different, I agree it's not really an example of Dramatic Irony.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
It would be nice to have more input, but I don't have a problem with it being removed.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Maybe we can try asking on the "Is this an example?" thread?
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Yes, that's one option. I'm fine with doing that.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I've noticed on these last view episode recaps that there seems to be a disagreement among people on whether Penny was of flesh and blood, or a spiritual avatar of some kind. The Final Word' should make it clear that she is indeed flesh and blood due to the blood from her wounds and on Jaune's sword.
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Well, I understand the confusion because the dying robot's vision makes it absolutely clear that she's just a Penny-shaped Aura with no body underneath. So, as physical and human as she appears to be, she also seems to be some kind manifested energy being.
Even Ambrosius didn't know what she'd be, and the show has deliberately created a bit of a mystery there. It's therefore possible that she's both flesh and blood and some kind of spiritual/energy being. Unless the show or creators confirm exactly what she was, I'd suggest limiting troping to what we saw in the show and not extrapolating what she is from that (we saw Aura and no body, but we also saw physical interactions and blood when injured, so we don't know what that makes her).
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
This has been added (He Knows Too Much), removed for being Speculative Troping, and re-added as They Know Too Much. It's a rewritten entry, it's about the same thing, and it doesn't change the fact that it's Speculative Troping.
- They Know Too Much: Cinder knows that Salem would not be glad to learn that Ruby was (apparently) killed and Jinn's final question was used up by Cinder. So she covertly disposes of both Watts and Neo, who potentially could reveal those unpleasant facts to Salem, after they are no longer useful to her, and outright lies to Salem, putting the blame for both deeds onto Neo and the heroes respectively. The fact that she held a grudge against both of her "companions" just made the acts so much sweeter for her.
Cinder outright states to Neo that she shouldn't have betrayed her, when she 'kills' Neo. All she says to Salem is that she destroyed the heroes' creation by asking the Staff to add more fire to the existing fire. There's a screen cut to Watts trying to break out of the burning room he's in, and that's all.
So, interpreting both situations as Cinder being motivated to hide her lie by killing the two villains who could expose it, is not something the show claims. It's an interpretation — a theory — fans came up with.
A lot of the fandom took Cinder at her word for the reason why she killed Neo because Cinder is such a vengeful person who does turn on people who hurt or betray her. It's just another Tuesday for her.
By the same token, a lot of fans interpret the Watts situation as revenge for his "The Reason You Suck" Speech a couple of episodes ago, and don't see anything other than that, especially since Watts and Cinder have always hated each other.
Other fans think it's both (vengefulness and covering her tracks).
While I personally agree that she's killing off the two villains to cover her tracks (I'm in the 'it's both' camp), the very fact that the fans have different interpretations for her motives shows how speculative this theory is. While a link can definitely made between 'killing' Neo (whether for vengeance alone or more) and blaming Neo for 'killing' Ruby (especially since it's actually Cinder who 'killed' Ruby in the end), Watts is completely speculative.
Speculative Troping states that speculative troping shouldn't be done. I'd therefore suggest rewording the trope to solely Neo as follows:
- She Knows Too Much: Cinder originally recruited Neo to kill Ruby because Salem had ordered her to bring in Ruby alive and used the lamp's final question in front of her. When Ruby and Neo's fight end with them both dangling from the path, Cinder takes both Relics, states that Neo should never have betrayed her and that Ruby should never have been born. She then drops them both into the void before informing Salem that Team RWBY used the lamp's final question and Neo killed Ruby.
I'm in the same boat that she killed Neo and Watts both out of spite and to cover her tracks, it is really only Neo that it is made any way clear.
This is an Edit War. It was added, removed with an edit reason, and re-added with no edit reason.
- Hidden Villain Agenda: In-universe. It's finally brought up this Volume that Ruby has no idea why Neo wants to kill her so badly, though she doesn't particularly care. The audience of course knows the reason is that Cinder lied that Ruby murdered Roman to get Neo to cooperate with her.
Hidden Agenda Villain is being shoehorned here. Just because Ruby doesn't know what Neo's motive is, doesn't mean this trope is in play. As the entry itself says, the audience has always known. The one hero who did ask, received an answer from Neo immediately (Maria). The point is, the reason Ruby doesn't know is because she's never asked — and Neo doesn't have the ability to speak, so she can't just tell her with words
Neo's quite open about her desire to go after Ruby for all those who care enough to ask or understand her well enough to interpret her method of communicating with the world.
This trope is about a villain who is actively keeping their true agenda secret. The heroes' lack of knowledge about Neo is based on ignorance, disinterest, and lack of opportunity. It's not based on Neo being secretive about her agenda.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
"Freeze-Frame Bonus: If one pauses the stinger scene at the right moment, one can spot visible cracks in the water near Crescent Rose. This implies that somehow, all six named characters who got thrown into the void were transported to a location within Remnant, which has a shattered moon that creates visible "cracks" in the water as seen in "Of Runaways and Stowaways"."
Just looks like normal ripples in the water to me?
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It is. It's just the way they animate water, that's why the water looks the same as in Volume 4.
I've deleted the entry. The entire comment about the moon sounds like fanon. I've cited the Volume 4 DVD Commentary about CRWBY's difficulties in animating water for this show.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
not sure I even understand this moon "Theory"
that the moon being cracked somehow makes cracks in the water? cracks that looks like ripples, and not at all like cracks
Animating water is hard..
I've never heard it before either, which is why I assumed it was someone's fanon.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Is there a Trope for 'The first time Jaune's Sword drew human, innocent, blood, the blade broke every part that had taken part in the act'?
- Seems like the weapon poetically refusing to be used by someone who would kill innocents? Like Symbolism, not literal.
I'd suggest using Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory, which will go on the YMMV page. That's for occasions that seem like they should be symbolic to the audience regardless of whether they really are.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Tricky Troper
I'd like to add somewhat downplayed for He's Back! - Watts' "The Reason You Suck" Speech clearly hit a nerve with Cinder and affected her more than she'll admit, considering her response was to murder him.
On a different note, I'm hoping that this comes back to bite her - perhaps murdering Watts means that they won't be able to use Ambrosius's powers to their fullest extent?
Page is currently locked so i will point at Marrow is on the ship with Qrow and the rest so What Happened to the Mouse? does not apply.
Edit: Never mind
Edited by chrome3 Hide / Show Replies
Yeah I was going to say that too, replace it with Maria & Pietro who dissappeared half a volume ago on Amnity. Also add Wreaked Weapon for Jaune's Sword Maybe Bookends? Start of Atlas Arc V7e 1 - Penny alive, here V8 ends Penny dies
Okay, originally "Ray of Hope" Ending was being troped on the page. ~Ninten Fire Swag 20 added Downer Ending, which I removed on the grounds of "Ray of Hope" Ending already being the trope that's on the page.
~Ninten Fire Swag 20 committed an Edit War by adding it back, this time removing "Ray of Hope" Ending from the page, stating they feel Downer Ending is the correct trope.
Since this is an Edit War, I'm bringing both tropes here. Which one belongs on the page?
The biggest problem I think Downer Ending has is that its own entry is admitting that it's a "Ray of Hope" Ending (see "The only consolation..." onwards, which even potholes "Ray of Hope" Ending). It's also troping the ending inaccurately (Salem and Cinder aren't unopposed just because Team RWBY and Jaune fell in the Void — the ending sets up there being the Kingdom of Vacuo and half the heroes still in play, including both the Big Good and Winter Maiden).
I think that, if the Downer Ending entry is admitting that "Ray of Hope" Ending is in play, then the correct trope is "Ray of Hope" Ending.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies