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Madrugada
moderator
topic
09:13:23 AM Mar 26th 2010
Moved from the main page: (regarding Balkan Vampires turning to stone or dust)
  • This information is entirely new to this troper and contradicts to what he has read from various books on vampire mythology, and he sincerely wishes to learn the source of this claim.
VVK
topic
06:32:18 PM May 12th 2010
Would examples that claim to be actual science but are based on horrible or imaginary research be the wrong sort for this trope?
Madrugada
moderator
07:22:36 PM May 12th 2010
No, those are exactly what this trope is for. When the work is said or strongly implied to be factually accurate, but is not.

If you're talking about Real Life examples, though, tread carefully. This isn't the place for Intelligent Design or Creationist vs Evolutionist stuff or things like that.
VVK
03:15:51 AM May 22nd 2010
What about Dianetics? Most Triumphant Example as far as I'm concerned. The book is horrible in this way.

Then again, there might be an unreasonable abundance of pseudoscientific examples to include them all, maybe I should write some blanket statement about them instead.
MatthewTheRaven
01:25:24 PM May 22nd 2010
If we can't attack popular religions we should be able to attack unpopular ones. It's only fair.
Madrugada
moderator
02:14:04 PM May 22nd 2010
edited by Madrugada
No. Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement. Learn it, love it, live it.

I'm sorry, VVK, I completely misunderstood your original question. I thought you were asking about things like misusing science in a work. This one is for works of fiction only. Not religions, not science or pseudoscience.
94.2.203.188
topic
04:40:04 PM May 19th 2010
I thought that Scrubs was seen as more accurate in terms of hospital research than the likes of House.
Madrugada
moderator
07:23:33 PM May 19th 2010
It's not as simple as "How accurate is it?" There has to be a claim (or strong implication) of accuracy. House did have that (when it started it followed the pattern of CSI and kept pointing out that they were hiring a "medical advisor"); Scrubs doesn't.
goodbyebluesky
02:43:58 AM Apr 30th 2011
Especially hilarious given that House fails basic high school biology: he once deduced that a woman was cheating on her husband because both had brown eyes, but their children had blue eyes.
Madrugada
moderator
topic
10:46:13 PM Aug 14th 2010
Sorry, Fast Eddie, I know you don't want ellipses, but that's a direct quote. Either that fragment needs to stay, with the trailing-off "let me start that sentence again" ellipsis, or there needs to be an ellipsis there to indicate that something has been edited out. Either way, they need to stay.
69.118.200.57
topic
01:21:39 PM Aug 23rd 2010
It seems there are some works which have their own page for this topic. Is there a list of them anywhere? It would be easier if there was.
Madrugada
moderator
05:21:18 PM Aug 23rd 2010
There's only one: DanBrowned.Dan Brown
Madrugada
moderator
topic
05:24:48 PM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by Madrugada
Fringe is not marketed as factually accurate, nor does anyone involved with it make that claim unequivocably. In fact, even the quote that was used, "It's not sci-fi, it's more sci" doesn't amount to a claim of accuracy. Furthermore, saying that something "lies within the realm of possibility" when you're talking about science simply means "nobody has definitely proved it can't be done yet." Fringe fails on the "clearly states or very strongly indicates that it is factually accurate" part of the definition.
MatthewTheRaven
07:39:50 PM Aug 23rd 2010
I would interpret that line to be a claim to accuracy, as it claims that's it's not sci-fi, (here meaning "made up stuff") and clearly based on accurate science with a bit of extrapolation like Re Genesis. I can't see any other way of reading it.
Madrugada
moderator
08:29:20 PM Aug 23rd 2010
See, I take it as a denial of the sci-fi ghetto, rather than a statement about the factual accuracy of the science. And even if JJ thinks it's not science fiction, it's still being marketed as science fiction, it's publicly identified as science fiction, there's no claims that I know of that have been made about them having science advisors to make sure they get the science right. It's simply not being presented to the public as factually accurate. If you can point me at someplace where it is presented that way, I'd like to see it. "Within the realm of possibility" is not the same thing as "factually accurate".
MatthewTheRaven
09:08:26 PM Aug 23rd 2010
"Within the realm of possibility" also means "not blatantly contradicting what we know about the world," so if there's instances of impossible things, it's still Dan Browned. The pituitary gland killer episode (1-2) had a baby age 80 years in minutes, the fourth episode of that season features telepathy and learning by osmosis, and the sixth episode had a woman take a drug that made her brain emit a microwave burst. In later episodes there was a teleporter, a pyrokinetic, and parallel universe travel on Earth. None of these things are remotely possible.
Madrugada
moderator
10:33:47 PM Aug 24th 2010
Right, they aren't. But for Fringe to be a case of Dan Browned, rather than simply "fiction", the show itself has to be presented to the public as factually accurate. Dan Browned isn't just "really, really wrong". It's "I tell you, it's true, TRUE!" when iut isn't. ''Fringe has the "it isn't" part, but it doesn't have the "It's True!" part. It is not being presented or marketed as anything but a science fiction show, no matter how badly JJ Abrams wants to keep it out of the sci-fi ghetto.

House is on the list because a big deal was made about how they were going to have medical advisors and actually listen to them, because (paraphrasing here,) 'it's a medical show. If the medicine is bad, the show can't be good.' CSI is on the list because of the same thing — back when it started there was a lot of hoorah about how they were gong to to be as accurate as possible. They quit making that claim, but they never repudiated it, so a lot of people still think that they're watching an accurate depiction of what a CSI does.

The characters in the show Fringe talk like what they're doing is true. But the show itself has never been presented as factually accurate science. Dan Browned is about how the work itself is presented to the public not whether the characters within the work say something is accurate.
MatthewTheRaven
09:24:09 AM Aug 25th 2010
edited by MatthewTheRaven
OK. So we should go through and purge all the Word Of God based Dan Brown-ings as well.
Madrugada
moderator
11:17:13 PM Aug 25th 2010
That's not what I said.

Abrams didn't say "It's accurate science" He said "It's not sci-fi" which is a genre that may or may not include accurate science. He wasn't making a statement about its accuracy. The closest he came is making a waffly statement about its plausibility.

However the Dan Browns of this world like to claim that what they produce is accurate fact, ... That's a quote from the definition. He didn't say it was accurate fact. Because of that, it isn't Dan Browned.
MatthewTheRaven
09:50:04 AM Aug 26th 2010
You and I are just going to have to disagree on how to interpret that quote then. I won't argue any further, it's not going to work because we can never know what Abrams really meant with his sci-fi bashing.
24.119.232.20
topic
10:16:11 AM Aug 27th 2010
21 Newton's Method

The complaint is made that a senior level math student would not be learning Newton's method because it is taught in first semester calculus. However, Newton's method is also taught in more detail in numerical methods (sometimes called numerical analysis) which is a junior or senior level class depending on the collage or university. I have not seen the source material. I cannot comment on the execution. Should that bullet in the examples section be removed?
Madrugada
moderator
06:01:03 PM Aug 27th 2010
Yeah, move it over here to the discussion page. I don't recall whether they're getting the basic version or the detailed version. We'll wait for someone who knows to weigh in. Good catch.
Madrugada
moderator
04:33:57 PM Nov 24th 2010
Moved over here for discussion:

  • The C.O.P.S. in Tell Tale Games's Sam And Max games do this once. Their spiel on Easter Island in "Moai Better Blues" includes factoids such as it being founded in 1914 by members of prog-rock band Asia and being located off the coast of "Your Mom", causing Sam to note he can tell they're still doing all their research on the Internet.

Is there any representation that Sam And Max are factually accurate games? If so, please add it when you restore this example. If not, do not restore the example. Dan Browned isn't "oh, a character got something wrong," It's "the author or the marketing department banners the accuracy of the work, but there are major errors in it."
MatthewTheRaven
topic
02:46:40 PM Dec 29th 2010
There seems to be two tropes going on: the original one, in which the creator makes the false claims of veracity, and a second one, in which the text makes the false claims for veracity. These are actually two very different things. The first one is lying, the second is a false document.
Shaoken
topic
04:54:25 AM May 5th 2011
Just throwing this in here rather than making an edit. World War Z is here because the author said it was a "realistic look on a zombie outbreak." However I can't find a point where he's saying it's a scientifically accurate, only that he's making it less sensationlised.

Basically what I'm saying is that there is a difference between making something more realistic and making something accurate. In my opinion the former would not belong here (because the Author is not claiming their work is fact) while the latter is (because the Trope namer went on record as saying the work was accurate).

So am I onto something here or am I just getting too defensive about things?
Kevonni4
topic
04:44:50 PM Jun 4th 2011
edited by Kevonni4
The porphyria entry is in serious error because the person who tried to explain porphyria got the facts completely wrong. The sensitivity to light is actually caused by the accumulation of porphyrins, or the precursors to hemoglobin, in the skin. These then react with the UV, causing the swelling. It is not caused by DNA damage. The disorder involving DNA damage is xeroderma pigmentosum. Would this count because it is clear that he or she tried to show research and implied accuracy but it was wrong? This may be stretching it because it is only an implied statement of yes, this is accurate. This is also a throw it in as a question.
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