Discussion Characters / TheLegendOfKorraEnemiesSeasons1And2

I believe we've discussed this before and gotten nowhere, so I think we need to find more opinions. I'll lay out my points and then we'll leave it to the popular consensus. My first problem relates simply to if the trope is being used correctly, as all the examples on the main page seem to be about literal, real-life Nazis and literal, real-life communists, and the historical problems this creates. I'm not sure "fantasy equivalents" for this trope can exist at all, as that seems like Square Peg Round Trope. Red, gold, and black are colors that have been used by communists and fascists, so I'll call that a wash. I'll agree that their political structure evokes more generic "evil dictator" than "people's democracy", but so do most Dirty Communists in fiction. Additionally, I'll concede that their rhetoric doesn't resemble that of actual Marxists very much, but I'm more inclined to believe this is because the creators just aren't actually that familiar with Marxism, and are basing the Equalists more on pop-cultural Dirty Communits than real-life ideologies. Now, I want to get into some touchy territory. The bender v. non-bender conflict does resemble that between racial groups, but drawing the specific parallel of "benders=Jews, Equalist=Nazis" doesn't work and actually carries Unfortunate Implications. The show goes out of its way to demonstrate that the Equalists are correct in their basic premise that benders have disproportionate power and are oppressing non-benders, and the creators have even clarified in interviews that they tried to present non-benders as an "oppressed majority". I feel the problem with paralleling this to Nazism is obvious: it implies that the Nazis were correct that Jews really did control Europe, and were oppressing the "Aryan race". That's obviously nonsense, but that is the inescapable conclusion of this allegory. The closest racial analogy to the situation in the show that comes to my mind is an Apartheid state, in which it is the minority racial group that is historically privileged and currently holds power, which is what the show presents us with. Still, I feel the definition question must be resolved first: Can "fantasy equivalents" qualify for the trope at all?

Like I emphasized in my last paragraph, I don't think the Equalists are literally German Nazis. They combine some communist traits with some fascist/Nazi ones (and some from other groups), all in a fantasy scenario that has no real life equivalent (there is literal magic, people with innate superpowers, etc.). So I don't feel there are any straight political analogies intended (even if the bad guys look more like Nazis than communists on the balance). They just wouldn't work even if they were intended; white South Africans did not have the same sort of very obvious superhuman superiority to blacks as someone like Korra or Tarrlok demonstrably does compared to Raiko or Asami, for example. That sort of political situation has never really existed in real life, since human races as they exist today do not differ in ability like that.

That said, I think there are still analogies in a broader sense, in that while the conflict depends on the fantasy setting, the mechanisms of it closely resemble those of real-life group conflict and bigotry. If something like Avatar-verse benders did exist in real life, it's all too easy to see a similar situation developing here. That is why Korra still manages to establish such verisimilitude in spite of its fantasy premises—the psychology of the supers-versus-normals controversy is done realistically, even if the basis as such is fantastic. The writers show both the realistic faults of the dominant group (arrogant conceit, hypocrisy, privilege, etc) and those of the out-group (such as political extremism and primitive bigotry). Neither faction has a monopoly on either good or evil (even if Amon if obviously worse and is beaten by the heroes in the end).

For further ambiguity, if we are still to venture into politically sensitive real life territory for approximate analogies (despite prior disclaimers), we might also note the strong racialist and even fascistoid elements in many anti-colonial, "liberationist" and nativist Third World movements. If we consider such a figure as Julius Malema in South Africa, for example—to build further on your South Africa comparison—at least some parts of his "Kill the Boer" rhetoric also sound rather more racist-fascist than orthodox Marxist if taken at face value, even though he was until recently an official of the Marxian African National Congress party. Should we think he is right wing or left wing? Real life politics can sometimes be complicated, especially outside the American context our usual idea of the political spectrum originates in.

This sort of confused (from our POV) situation does not require a Third World setting either. In eastern Europe, there have been at least somewhat similar conflicts in living memory between different "White" ethnic groups, such as disprivileged Ukrainian peasant farmers against wealthy Polish land owners (and vice versa) in Poland before World War II. Economics were an issue there, of course, but race/ethnicity/nationality also was. And at least some of those Ukrainian groups took a lot of inspiration from the Nazis—IIRC some even called themselves National Socialists. So fictional "Nazis" rebelling against fictional "South Africa" sort of can work in a fictional setting, even if that precise conflict for various (and mostly obvious) reasons never happened in real life. Racial struggles do not tend to make for any very morally edifying displays (at least in my experience), and both sides will be likely to look rather bad to the outside observer when all is said and done, "oppressors" and "oppressed" alike.

Sorry for that probably somewhat excessive digression. I don't think interwar Poland (for example) played any conscious part in it when Book 1 of Korra was written, I just used it here to illustrate a point. Even without all this authentic complexity muddying the waters, however, it doesn't surprise me that the writers were also purposely somewhat vague in how they defined their (fictional) group conflict in the series. That way, they can avoid specific political controversies like you would get from historical fiction, while still exploring the issues of power relations, bigotry and oppression. That is commendable when done in such a (relatively) sensitive and mature manner as Korra managed, and especially in a cartoon aimed at children.

Altogether, then, I certainly don't think we should read a pro-Nazi message into the Equalist-Nazi parallels (and not just because they are the villains in the story). Given the generally "progressive" messages of Korra otherwise (and the real life politics of the creators) that would in fact seem downright absurd in my opinion. The fictional world of the series is a broad comment on more or less universal social phenomena and patterns of history, portrayed in the typically exaggerated manner of speculative fiction in general, not a one-for-one analogy to interwar Europe (or South Africa, or anything else). The Nazi imagery is there to highlight the issues of prejudice and bigotry (if it's not just to let the villains benefit a little from their particular brand of Evil Is Cool), not to take their side in a specific historical context.

Concerning the other point, on whether Commie Nazis can fit fantasy equivalents, we could simply move the entry to A Nazi by Any Other Name instead if that's a problem. That might perhaps even fit better, and (trope name notwithstanding) that trope is not limited to just Nazis, but includes fantasy expies of other iconic historical movements as well.

Reading the page, A Nazi by Any Other Name only applies to direct, deliberate Nazi stand-ins. How about we delete both this trope and the Dirty Communists entry and add a Does This Remind You of Anything? entry noting that the Equalists draw elements from several historical groups, but aren't a direct parallel or allegory for any.

If I read the page description at A Nazi by Any Other Name right, examples don't need to be straight Nazi knockoffs, just reasonably similar racist/fascistoid/"totalitarian" fictional groups. Looking further at the examples list, there are a lot of entries that are only tangentially Nazi-ish, from conventional military dictatorships to evil corporations to random lynch mobs. IMO the Equalists have much more obvious Nazi parallels than many of those.

On your suggestion, though, I think that would also work, if you prefer that. Would something like this write-up be suitable?

• Does This Remind You of Anything?: According to the creators, the Equalists were written as a "Majority Rights" populist revolutionary movement, fighting the superhumanly powerful and influential minority (the Benders) that dominates the Republic. While thus not a direct analogue to any real-life political ideology, aspects of their rhetoric and tactics are reminiscent of various groups, from "Old Left" socialists to right-wing religious crusaders and even the Nazis. Their uniforms and propaganda and Amon's charismatic leadership style also have a more overt touch of Putting on the Reich.

Some slight changes. How's this?

• Does This Remind You of Anything?: According to the creators, the Equalists were written as a "Majority Rights" populist revolutionary movement, fighting the superhumanly powerful minority (the Benders) that politically dominates the Republic. While thus not a direct analogue to any real-life political ideology, aspects of their rhetoric and tactics are reminiscent of various groups, from authoritarian socialists to right-wing religious crusaders and even the Nazis. Their uniforms and Amon's charismatic leadership style also have a more overt touch of Putting on the Reich.

I can see a potential problem there in that most present day readers probably don't know what "authoritarian socialism" is and what distinguishes it, so that label is mostly meaningless or even potentially misleading to them. In the current day US "socialism" is (regrettably) usually used more or less as a general slur for liberals and progressives of all sorts, who ultimately don't really have very much to do with the authentic working class movement. More people know the difference between the "Old Left" (i.e., authentic Communists and Socialists) and the "New Left" (the identity politics liberals who are more concerned with issues like gender-neutral bathrooms than, for example, labor organization). Insofar as they have leftist leanings, the Equalists are clearly reminiscent of the former rather than the latter, so that distinction can be worth making.

I also think limiting the Equalist complaint to purely political overrepresentation tends to obscure the full scope of the rather well-developed power dynamics the show constructed. In Korra, the structural advantage of benders is not just a matter for the political class, but much broader. For example, benders also dominate organized crime, and are portrayed as a very powerful cultural influence in the Republic (as well as more broadly in the setting). If one reads them as a power elite in the classical sense, their power is not merely institutional, but hegemonic in their society.

I think Old Left and New Left are the more obscure terms, because almost everyone knows what "authoritarian" means, and thus will understand the phrase even without knowing about the authoritarian vs. libertarian divide in the left. Old Left and New Left are, in my experience, much more niche and only understood by people in leftist circles. I have no objection to your other point.

In my experience I tend to hear about Old Left/New Left more, but OK. That works for me.

You have anything else you want to add? Otherwise, I'll go ahead and put in something like your revision of the first draft under Does This Remind You of Anything?, with a slightly broader phrasing of the power the benders wield.

Agreed.