You're right. It's surprising how much it lacks specificity. Even boiling those down to the basic terms makes them too many for the trope.
They may fit better on different tropes because they're good examples regardless.
EDIT: maybe all the examples fall under an umbrella of "hubris".
Edited by Everblaster
Predator Loyal to the Zerg Swarm
Can we just sort out what Deconstructed Character Archetype is now? If you guys keep going back and forth, that’s an edit war, and then the mods get involved. So please take a moment to kindly decide what archetype Daemon deconstructs and stick with that.
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I think Daemon is a deconstruction of Reformed Rake.
The idea of Reformed Rake is that how a man acts prior to marriage is not indicative of how he will act in marriage. Thus you can get the sexiness of All Girls Want Bad Boys but also the wholesomeness of Family Man, by way of The Power of Love.
The deconstruction is that no, actually there is some overlap between how a man acts outside his marriage and how he will act within it, and that expecting otherwise is naïve.
The core idea of Reformed Rake is he's different with her. And generally speaking Daemon is different with Rhaenyra that he is with everyone else—but only to an extent. In my latest edit I tried to really clarify this by listing out specific character traits that are first established by Daemon's interactions with others and then later exhibited in interactions with Rhaenyra in episode 10.
As far as I understand it, Snake thinks Daemon is comparatively less bad than other characters and I'm being mean and overly harsh by pointing out his flaws. I think that how he compares to other characters isn't relevant here; this isn't a comparative character trope like Foil or something.
Edited by Eievie
After some thought, I agree with this. But I think you should get at least two more opinions on the matter.
I don't think Daemon is a good example of Reformed Rakes because I'm not sure we were ever supposed to think he would Reform. He hates Rhea (Wife 1) and murders her. He is tamer with Laena (Wife 2), but still prefers being a Pentoshi swashbuckler over returning to Westeros, and apparently isn't super close to their kids (deleted scenes notwithstanding). Getting hitched to Rhaenyra after years is something he wanted, but not enough time is spent on their relationship in ep 8 (the only ep where they're a 'normal' married couple with no wars to plan) to make us think the red flags are no longer there/he treats her particularly differently than he did Laena. He's kinder to Viserys, but that could easily be ascribed to his brother being at death's door than Rhaenyra reforming him. Indeed his most memorable scene in ep 8 is publicly murdering a guy — in defense of family yes, but still public murder.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I wasn't particularly surprised by the choking. I wasn't going "huh I guess that is what happens when you marry a toxic man", I was going "classic toxic Daemon!"
Edited by Synchronicity
I agree it's not strongly implied that Daemon would be otherwise, and calling it a Deconstructed Archetype is probably overstating things.
I do think it's at least mildly implied, though. The show made a deliberate effort to frame their relationship more romantically than the book does. From ep2 Bridge Scene to ep4 Brothel Backtracking, the idea that Daemon is different with Rhaenyra than he is with others is established.
That part's missing from the current listing, though, which is definitely an omission.
We have this for Rhaenyra
The trope is about the one flaw, very recurring character flaw that the hero struggles with constantly and prevents them from advancing their goals, and will likely be the cause their doom/undoing (it's not about the event itself , which would be Tragic Mistake).
However what we have here is a broad shopping list of several defects and missteps, and it doesn't seem like an example of the trope as it's written.
Edited by TrollBrutal Hide / Show Replies