[009]
Dawnwing
Current Version
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \
to:
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\\\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \\\"months or years of bottled-in anger and hatred\\\".
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to [=StarClan=] despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in [=StarClan=].\\\'\\\'
Hmm... \\\"despite\\\" sounds a bit strong... and so does the \\\"other characters\\\" bit, though I\\\'d meant it to point out why it\\\'s unusual in the series and not just fans\\\' opinions. That might need a bit of work, but I still think we should have this trope in there in some form other than YMMV.
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, we can\\\'t ignore his crimes, or keep saying \\\"he was insane\\\", \\\"he had mental issues\\\" like the article does now.
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to [=StarClan=] despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in [=StarClan=].\\\'\\\'
Hmm... \\\"despite\\\" sounds a bit strong... and so does the \\\"other characters\\\" bit, though I\\\'d meant it to point out why it\\\'s unusual in the series and not just fans\\\' opinions. That might need a bit of work, but I still think we should have this trope in there in some form other than YMMV.
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, we can\\\'t ignore his crimes, or keep saying \\\"he was insane\\\", \\\"he had mental issues\\\" like the article does now.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \
to:
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\\\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \\\"months or years of bottled-in anger and hatred\\\".
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to StarClan despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
Hmm... \\\"despite\\\" sounds a bit strong... and so does the \\\"other characters\\\" bit, though I\\\'d meant it to point out why it\\\'s unusual in the series and not just fans\\\' opinions. That might need a bit of work, but I still think we should have this trope in there in some other form than YMMV.
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, we can\\\'t ignore his crimes.
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to StarClan despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
Hmm... \\\"despite\\\" sounds a bit strong... and so does the \\\"other characters\\\" bit, though I\\\'d meant it to point out why it\\\'s unusual in the series and not just fans\\\' opinions. That might need a bit of work, but I still think we should have this trope in there in some other form than YMMV.
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, we can\\\'t ignore his crimes.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \
to:
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\\\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \\\"months or years of bottled-in anger and hatred\\\".
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to StarClan despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
Hmm... \\\"despite\\\" sounds a bit strong... and so does the \\\"other characters\\\" bit, though I\\\'d meant it to point out why it\\\'s unusual in the series and not just fans\\\' opinions. That might need a bit of work, but I still think we should have this trope in there in some other form than YMMV.
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, you also can\\\'t ignore the fact that he did attempt murder.
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to StarClan despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
Hmm... \\\"despite\\\" sounds a bit strong... and so does the \\\"other characters\\\" bit, though I\\\'d meant it to point out why it\\\'s unusual in the series and not just fans\\\' opinions. That might need a bit of work, but I still think we should have this trope in there in some other form than YMMV.
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, you also can\\\'t ignore the fact that he did attempt murder.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \
to:
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\\\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \\\"months or years of bottled-in anger and hatred\\\".
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to StarClan despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, you also can\\\'t ignore the fact that he did attempt murder.
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'He was sent to StarClan despite [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]], while other characters with the same crime went to the Dark Forest. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, you also can\\\'t ignore the fact that he did attempt murder.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \
to:
- Disproportionate Retribution: Needs to be rephrased, I think. The line on there now is a bit confusing, and it almost sounds as if it\\\'s pro-Ashfur, making it sound as if he had the worse deal, with the emphasis on \\\"months or years of bottled-in anger and hatred\\\".
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'YMMV depending on whether you think he should have been sent to the Dark Forest for [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]]. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, you also can\\\'t ignore the fact that he did attempt murder - it sounds a bit like the entry\\\'s trying to explain it away.
- Draco In Leather Pants is now okay, but I think I\\\'d leave out the \\\"borderline mentally ill\\\" - or at least change it to say something like \\\"possibly borderline mentally ill\\\". That\\\'s a bit of a mouthful, so maybe a different way of phrasing that too. We don\\\'t know for sure that he was, we\\\'re not psychiatrists.
- Karma Houdini: What was wrong with what was there? We\\\'ve got Blackstar as that too (either on the main page or on his character page), and a description of what he did. And other cats, like Darkstripe and Hawkfrost, committed the exact same crime as Ashfur (attempting to kill, but not being successful), and yet they wound up in the Dark Forest. It\\\'s not just fans\\\' opinion on him, he\\\'s a karma houdini when you compare him to characters that have done the same thing. And it\\\'s exactly right when it says \\\"no other justification than \\\'His only fault was to love too much\\\' \\\" - Yellowfang doesn\\\'t explain why, or how loving equates to attempted murder. Even in-universe, Jayfeather considers him a Karma Houdini. Maybe have something like:
\\\'\\\'YMMV depending on whether you think he should have been sent to the Dark Forest for [[spoiler:conspiring to kill Firestar, and attempting to murder Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather]]. Also an in-universe example: Jayfeather himself feels that Ashfur should not be in StarClan.\\\'\\\'
So far, there hasn\\\'t been any edit wars regarding Ashfur, so I don\\\'t see the issue with leaving it the way it was. As I said, most of the changes are good, making it a bit more neutral. But neutral means that while we can\\\'t have it all calling him bad, you also can\\\'t ignore the fact that he did attempt murder - it sounds a bit like the entry\\\'s trying to explain it away.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Or the insert that the minuses were genocidal? That\'s just BS. The flask plan on the other hand was stated outright to plan to sacrifice 5 billion of humanity as lab rats if I remember correctly.
to:
Or the insert that the minuses were genocidal? That\\\'s just BS. The flask plan on the other hand was stated outright to plan to sacrifice 5 billion of humanity as lab rats if I remember correctly. Why are genocidal literal fascists less evil than unhinged damaged goods?
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Or the insert that the minuses were genocidal? That\'s just BS. THe flask plan on the other hand was stated outright to plan to sacrifice 5 billion of humanity as lab rats if I remember correctly.
to:
Or the insert that the minuses were genocidal? That\\\'s just BS. The flask plan on the other hand was stated outright to plan to sacrifice 5 billion of humanity as lab rats if I remember correctly.
Then there are the unnecessary repetitive descriptions that aren\\\'t really good for anything. Why not ween them away? I did put in quite a lot of work to strongly improve the page, so it feels unnecessary to just remove it.
Then there are the unnecessary repetitive descriptions that aren\\\'t really good for anything. Why not ween them away? I did put in quite a lot of work to strongly improve the page, so it feels unnecessary to just remove it.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
How is this any more potholing than what you did? I simply evened out the descriptions. The first opponents are very strongly a ShoutOut to fascism, especially Oudo, and the second gang of opponents were set up as opposing socialism-anarchist bent, but not really worse people as such. Why the extremely favouring tone regarding the fascist Oudo, to the it eventually turned out nicer Kunagawa?
to:
How is this any more potholing than what you did? I simply evened out the descriptions. The first opponents are very strongly a ShoutOut to fascism, especially Oudo, and the second gang of opponents were set up as opposing socialism-anarchist bent, but not really worse people as such. Why the extremely favouring tone regarding the fascist Oudo, to the it eventually turned out nicer Kunagawa?
Or the insert that the minuses were genocidal? That\\\'s just BS. THe flask plan on the other hand was stated outright to plan to sacrifice 5 billion of humanity as lab rats if I remember correctly.
Or the insert that the minuses were genocidal? That\\\'s just BS. THe flask plan on the other hand was stated outright to plan to sacrifice 5 billion of humanity as lab rats if I remember correctly.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
How is this any more potholing than what you did? I simply evened out the descriptions. The first opponents are very strongly a ShoutOut to fascism, especially Oudo, and the second opponents weren\'t nearly as bad as first described.
to:
How is this any more potholing than what you did? I simply evened out the descriptions. The first opponents are very strongly a ShoutOut to fascism, especially Oudo, and the second gang of opponents were set up as opposing socialism-anarchist bent, but not really worse people as such. Why the extremely favouring tone regarding the fascist Oudo, to the it eventually turned out nicer Kunagawa?
