[006]
PersonaTroper
Current Version
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \
to:
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\\\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \\\"Aw sheesh, I was wondering why it\\\'s so hot\\\" when the possibility of alcohol gets brought up, and even Yosuke was wondering at the end if his massive headache is what a hangover is like. Moreover, there\\\'s no other good explanation for [[YamatoNadeshiko Yukiko]]\\\'s antics. Do you really think she\\\'d be the type to let loose at a club because she\\\'s riding high on the atmosphere? That she\\\'d even keep it up after Naoto kills the mood two or three times? I\\\'d love an explanation on why the next day Yukiko asks \\\"Um... what happened last night? I don\\\'t remember much about it...\\\", Rise responds, \\\"Oh, I think the two of us fell asleep quick. I hear it got pretty wild, though.\\\" (ie. \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' does not remember either.), and then Yukiko responds, \\\"I see... I don\\\'t remember at all...\\\" I have some fairly incontrovertible evidence that they were drinking and a plausible explanation on how it could happen.
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if during the PlayableEpilogue you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if during the PlayableEpilogue you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \
to:
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\\\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \\\"Aw sheesh, I was wondering why it\\\'s so hot\\\" when the possibility of alcohol gets brought up, and even Yosuke was wondering at the end if his massive headache is what a hangover is like. Moreover, there\\\'s no other good explanation for [[YamatoNadeshiko Yukiko]]\\\'s antics. Do you really think she\\\'d be the type to let loose at a club because she\\\'s riding high on the atmosphere? That she\\\'d even keep it up after Naoto kills the mood two or three times? I\\\'d love an explanation on why the next day Yukiko asks \\\"Um... what happened last night? I don\\\'t remember much about it...\\\", Rise responds, \\\"Oh, I think the two of us fell asleep quick. I hear it got pretty wild, though.\\\" (ie. \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' does not remember either.), and then Yukiko responds, \\\"I see... I don\\\'t remember at all...\\\" I have some fairly incontrovertible evidence that they were drinking and a plausible explanation on how it could happen.
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \
to:
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\\\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \\\"Aw sheesh, I was wondering why it\\\'s so hot\\\" when the possibility of alcohol gets brought up, and even Yosuke was wondering at the end if his massive headache is what a hangover is like. Moreover, there\\\'s no other good explanation for [[YamatoNadeshiko Yukiko]]\\\'s antics. Do you really think she\\\'d be the type to let loose at a club because she\\\'s riding high on the atmosphere? That she\\\'d even keep it up after Naoto kills the mood two or three times? I\\\'d love an explanation on why the next day Yukiko asks \\\"Um... what happened last night? I don\\\'t remember much about it...\\\", Rise responds, \\\"Oh, I think the two of us fell asleep quick. I hear it got pretty wild, though.\\\" (ie. \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' does not remember either.), and then Yukiko responds, \\\"I see... I don\\\'t remember at all...\\\" I have some fairly incontrovertible evidence that they were drinking and a plausible explanation on how it could happen.
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)\\\\\\\\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4\\\\\\\\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M\\\\\\\\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg\\\\\\\\
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)\\\\\\\\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4\\\\\\\\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M\\\\\\\\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg\\\\\\\\
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \
to:
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\\\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \\\"Aw sheesh, I was wondering why it\\\'s so hot\\\" when the possibility of alcohol gets brought up, and even Yosuke was wondering at the end if his massive headache is what a hangover is like. Moreover, there\\\'s no other good explanation for [[YamatoNadeshiko Yukiko]]\\\'s antics. Do you really think she\\\'d be the type to let loose at a club because she\\\'s riding high on the atmosphere? That she\\\'d even keep it up after Naoto kills the mood two or three times? I\\\'d love an explanation on why the next day Yukiko asks \\\"Um... what happened last night? I don\\\'t remember much about it...\\\", Rise responds, \\\"Oh, I think the two of us fell asleep quick. I hear it got pretty wild, though.\\\" (ie. \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' does not remember either.), and then Yukiko responds, \\\"I see... I don\\\'t remember at all...\\\" I have some fairly incontrovertible evidence that they were drinking and a plausible explanation on how it could happen.
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \
to:
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\\\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \\\"Aw sheesh, I was wondering why it\\\'s so hot\\\" when the possibility of alcohol gets brought up, and even Yosuke was wondering at the end if his massive headache is what a hangover is like. Moreover, there\\\'s no other good explanation for [[YamatoNadeshiko Yukiko]]\\\'s antics. Do you really think she\\\'d be the type to let loose at a club because she\\\'s riding high on the atmosphere? That she\\\'d even keep it up after Naoto kills the mood two or three times? I\\\'d love an explanation on why the next day Yukiko asks \\\"Um... what happened last night? I don\\\'t remember much about it...\\\", Rise responds, \\\"Oh, I think the two of us fell asleep quick. I hear it got pretty wild, though.\\\" (ie. \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' does not remember either.), and then Yukiko responds, \\\"I see... I don\\\'t remember at all...\\\" I have some fairly incontrovertible evidence that they were drinking and a plausible explanation on how it could happen.
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \
to:
ccoa, I totally agree that my argument hinges on my interpretation being correct. It goes without saying that I think it is. Your counter-evidence that not everyone\\\'s affected by the alcohol seems weak to me - you know not everyone gets affected the same and not everyone drinks the same amount. Plus, even Chie says \\\"Aw sheesh, I was wondering why it\\\'s so hot\\\" when the possibility of alcohol gets brought up, and even Yosuke was wondering at the end if his massive headache is what a hangover is like. Moreover, there\\\'s no other good explanation for [[YamatoNadeshiko Yukiko]]\\\'s antics. Do you really think she\\\'d be the type to let loose at a club because she\\\'s riding high on the atmosphere? That she\\\'d even keep it up after Naoto kills the mood two or three times? I\\\'d love an explanation on why the next day Yukiko asks \\\"Um... what happened last night? I don\\\'t remember much about it...\\\", Rise responds, \\\"Oh, I think the two of us fell asleep quick. I hear it got pretty wild, though.\\\" (ie. \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' does not remember either.), and then Yukiko responds, \\\"I see... I don\\\'t remember at all...\\\" I have some fairly incontrovertible evidence that they were drinking and a plausible explanation on how it could happen.
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg\\\\\\\\
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
Red Viking, to me, stepping out of the discussion only meant you were no longer talking with us, which was true at the time. I wasn\\\'t making assumptions about you or anything, and I didn\\\'t mean to imply you excused yourself or anything. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn\\\'t assume anything about what you\\\'re saying unless you step up and say it. I\\\'m sorry if it seemed like I did just that. That wasn\\\'t my intention at all.
Second, it\\\'s not my intention to \\\"go behind the mods\\\' backs\\\" or \\\"presume to tell the mods what they should or shouldn\\\'t do\\\". When I asked for another mod who has played the game to make a call, I was asking that directly from the mods who made theirs. They both pointed out that an alternate scene interpretation doesn\\\'t constitute a MisaimedFandom, but my point is that \\\'\\\'here\\\'\\\' it is because \\\'\\\'this scene\\\'\\\' is also a test to see if the audience grasps the theme of the game. I don\\\'t think I\\\'m getting uppity for asking if there is a mod who has played the game to make the call about whether subtle game details merit a trope entry or not. I\\\'d appreciate it if you don\\\'t try to paint me black for asking this.
If there are no mods who played Persona 4, here at least are the YouTube videos of the drinking scene and aftermath: (FYI: The scene\\\'s hilarious - you should watch it anyway.)\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0IdzB8eX4\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A84iyUCCc_M\\\\\\\\
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCJud4A1Pg\\\\\\\\
And the entry I was trying to add:
* MisaimedFandom: A surprisingly large number of players believe that the cast weren\\\'t actually drinking alcohol in Club Escapade just because [[KidDetective Naoto]] stated (with conviction) that the bar doesn\\\'t serve alcohol anymore. These players seem to have completely missed the game\\\'s {{Anvilicious}} moral of \\\"confronting/searching for the truth and not accepting the easy answer in front of your eyes.\\\" Details: [[spoiler:\\\'\\\'\\\'Were they really drunk?\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes. Yukiko isn\\\'t the sort to get drunk off the atmosphere, plus she and Rise were \\\'\\\'completely plastered\\\'\\\' by the end. \\\'\\\'\\\'Didn\\\'t the bar stop serving alcohol?\\\'\\\'\\\' Nope! Remember the monk Mutatsu from Persona 3 (Towers at Club Escapade)? He said \\\"The more you try to act like an adult, the more you seem like a child.\\\" and [[KidDetective Naoto]] \\\'\\\'asked a nightclub if they serve alcohol.\\\'\\\' The bartender was just messing with her because this really shouldn\\\'t concern her. \\\'\\\'\\\'So how\\\'d they get the drinks?\\\'\\\'\\\' Simple: Rise. She has the experience and connections, and the club owed her a favor. She even says \\\"I told them to make them non-alcoholic\\\" - ie. she needs to \\\'\\\'specify\\\'\\\' to \\\'\\\'avoid\\\'\\\' getting booze. And I\\\'d bet your eyes were rolling too when she first said that line.]]
That makes the case why I see my interpretation as correct, but I guess it\\\'s mostly TakeOurWordForIt when it comes to the game having a really heavy, overarching theme of searching for the truth and not allowing yourself to be mislead. I can point out the endings feature this player-testing too: [[spoiler:It has two sorta good endings once you discover the copycat killer wasn\\\'t at fault and pile everything on the villain you find towards the end: one if you kill him (with his method) and one if you don\\\'t - our villain won\\\'t really get arrested because his murder method was literally fantastical - the cops didn\\\'t have evidence to pin him. Another ending for figuring out it couldn\\\'t have been all him without figuring out the rest. Then there is a happy ending for finding out who was responsible for the rest of it. And \\\'\\\'then\\\'\\\' a true ending if you had the good sense to realize you weren\\\'t done yet and had to find out where it all started. The game won\\\'t even tell you there was more to it when it ends, so most people don\\\'t make it to the true ending, and a fair few get tripped up before then.]]
