[004]
Turtler
Current Version
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\\\"It occurs to me that the Reapers\\\' main advantages are surprise and preparation.\\\"
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT lose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it got killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required.\\\"?
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Reapers didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life lose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT lose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it got killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required.\\\"?
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Reapers didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life lose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
\
to:
\\\"It occurs to me that the Reapers\\\' main advantages are surprise and preparation.\\\"
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT lose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it got killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required.\\\"?
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Reapers didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life loose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT lose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it got killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required.\\\"?
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Reapers didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life loose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
\
to:
\\\"It occurs to me that the Reapers\\\' main advantages are surprise and preparation.\\\"
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT lose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it god killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required.\\\"?
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Reapers didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life loose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT lose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it god killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required.\\\"?
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Reapers didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life loose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
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\\\"It occurs to me that the Reapers\\\' main advantages are surprise and preparation.\\\"
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT loose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it god killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required?\\\"
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Collectors didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life loose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
In all due honesty, you are likely wrong. It HELPS, doubtless, but they aren\\\'t as squishy as the Nomads are in Freelancer. Given the Reapers\\\' success record, it appears that they use secrecy and preparation because they MIGHT loose against a combined universe. Contrast the Nomads, who WOULD loose against a united human front. Big difference.
The only actual combat we have seen against the Reapers involved one of them driving straight into the heart of Galactic civilization, tearing through several heavy ships like paper, and only going down to a LOT of punishment (if there was even one Dreadnought in the fleet- and it\\\'s a fair guess that there was a hell of a lot more- this thing was taking blasts larger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki every FEW SECONDS). And even THEN the jury is still out on whether it god killed because of said punishment or because Shepard\\\'s team on the Citadel short circuited something when they killed Saren\\\'s possessed implants.
And the OTHER Reaper we see? Apparently someone managed to kill it using MA rounds that are far larger and more powerful than what we have seen in-universe (again, Klendagon\\\'s Great Rift Valley), and even then they STILL didn\\\'t completely kill the damn thing.
Everything we have seen points to the consensus that these things are no pushovers, and that the smoke and mirrors seems to be more of a matter of efficiency than anything else (naturally, risk factors in somewhere, but from what we see, they aren\\\'t exactly at risk from much).
\\\"They\\\'re able to systematically wipe out all organic civilization every 50,000 years because they set up a giant trap.\\\"
And you know this HOW? Again, these things defeated species with vastly greater technology than we possess, and while the Protheans certainly had a disadvantage re: the Citadel getting overrun and the other species (Klendagon Rift Gun) might have had the same, we can only stretch the \\\"surprise\\\" explanation so far. These things are effing tough, and one of these decimated the home fleet of the Galactic government as a SIDE-EFFECT of trying to open the Citadel up. Think about that for a second and tell me how likely we are to come out on top in conventional warfare. Hell, I am willing to bet that the 5-8 Reapers we see in the end cutscene could probably crush any organized resistance we could offer in a straight up fight.
\\\"By taking the Citadel and shutting down the mass relay network, the Reapers both throw the galaxy into chaos and gain complete knowledge of where everyone lives.\\\"
True, but again, the question must be how much is that \\\"we have to because we will get crushed if we don\\\'t\\\" and how much is it \\\"Extermination Cycle was delayed 10,000 years too long. This is unacceptable. Higher efficiency is required?\\\"
\\\"If anyone - anyone - were to get some advance warning of the Reapers\\\' invasion, then civilization can still be saved.\\\"
Sorry, but what do you think Cerberus, the STG, the Alliance, etc. have? That advanced warning. Has it done any good? We don\\\'t know, depending on whether you think the Council is actually stupid or is just playing it. And even if we do assume that the Council is working on some Manhattan-project esque attempt to counter the Reapers and we can somehow herd the cats of the Citadel Races, the Terminus Systems, the Quarians, the Geth, Rachni, the Krogan, and anyone else we don\\\'t know about together, who is do say that we still have the firepower to do so?
For all we know, the entire reason why they leave a vanguard like Sovereign/Nazara in the first place is because someone actually did wise up and manage to throw the script out of play before getting crushed anyway.
\\\"Just colonize a truly uncharted planet, one that nobody\\\'s ever heard of, and suddenly you\\\'ve scored higher than every other sapient species from the past 37 million or so years.\\\"
Um, you DID listen to Vigil, right? These things are very effing patient and VERY effing thorough. Case in point: ILOS. Most if not all of the official records in the Citadel were destroyed in the initial attack, effectively placing Ilos off the grid save for some exceedingly scattered references throughout the galaxy. And even THEN the Reapers still found it and glassed the surface. Organic life in this cycle was only given a chance because they apparently didn\\\'t know about the existence of the underground research complex. THAT is pretty DAMN thorough. And if Sovereign learned and passed on the reason for why the Collectors didn\\\'t operate properly, chances are they will be even MORE careful this time.
I repeat: In ALL of the galaxy-spanning Prothean Empire, including who knows how many off the record settlements and the like, the Reapers missed a grand total of ONE SMALL RESEARCH BUNKER on ONE PLANET. Now tell me class, what does that tell us about the Reapers? In all due likelyhood, trying to settle on uncharted worlds is only going to delay them a few thousand years at most and royally tick them off even further. If these things were incompetent enough to be fooled by a fairly small group of organics setting up shop just outside of known space, the cycle of extinction would have ended EONS ago.
\\\"You wouldn\\\'t even need Shepard to lead that expedition. Sure, it\\\'s not the most optimal ending, but it\\\'s a far cry from utterly pointless.\\\"
Only because you ludicrously, ludicrously underestimate the Reaper threat. I repeat: these things are not stupid or incompetent, and you won\\\'t realistically get away with things like settling on uncharted planets and hoping you don\\\'t get noticed. One of these things knocked the living schiesten out of the Citadel Fleet and a good portion of the Arcturus one without even really THINKING about it (granted, the Heretic Geth helped to some extent, but they by all accounts went down pretty quick).
The simple fact is that Shepard and the Crew know most of what comparatively little anybody knows about fighting the Reapers, and if the vast majority of them get killed off only to eliminate PUPPETS of the Reapers, how exactly do you think the rest of organic life is going to fare?
I re-iterate: The Reapers are very, VERY good at what they do, the cat\\\'s already out of the bag regarding the Reapers and it is hard to see how Joker\\\'s warning will realistically do more than whatever is already being done, and since the Keepers are BY DEFINITION not the real threat, and their elimination at such costs will at most merely set the clock to the complete obliteration of everything- including everything you, the Citadel, the Protheans, the Alliance, and anyone else have worked towards- back without doing much else (and thus fulfilling the guidelines of STSD).
In short, the worst ending shows the destruction of the Collectors at the cost of having Galactic life loose most of its best champions without doing much at all. Unless EDI obtained vastly more data than we see in game regarding the Reapers, it\\\'s unlikely that most- if anyone- will know anything they didn\\\'t know from the wreck of Sovereign unless Shepard chose to save the station for Cerberus AND Cerberus finds something useful AND Cerberus becomes surprisingly open about sharing this find. I rest my case.
