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jaydude
Current Version
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In the past I\'ve only taken things to the discussion page whenever I wanted to remove examples; I just put \
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Changed line(s) 1 from:
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In the past I\'ve only taken things to the discussion page whenever I wanted to remove examples; I just put \
to:
In the past I\\\'ve only taken things to the discussion page whenever I wanted to remove examples; I just put \\\"see discussion page\\\" in the edit reason.
\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'You\\\'re basically saying that, because the conversation didn\\\'t go the way you wanted it to, it\\\'s What an Idiot!.\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"
Forgive me, but isn\\\'t that kind of the very nature of this trope? That we want characters to pick the courses of action that it makes the most IC sense for them to pick?
Anyway. In the scenario I wished had happened for the first example, Raven would have let Yang go to Ozpin after warning her about his duplicity, if she couldn\\\'t persuade Yang to remain in her camp. She\\\'d do this in the hope that Yang would choose not to keep on supporting Ozpin, after persuading or trying to persuade Ruby to do the same, and return to her mother afterwards. Though looking back, it would have made more sense for Raven to accompany Yang and Weiss through the portal (I\\\'m assuming that Raven can make a portal back to Vernal in this hypothetical scenario, seeing as the two of them were quite close), so that she could bring Yang back quickly.
Of course, such a thing would never happen, due to Ruby\\\'s personality and Yang\\\'s love for her little sister. I acknowledge that, but I thought it would have at least made more sense than Raven pretty much saying to Yang \\\"give up on your little sister despite how you were willing to track me down and force me to use my semblance to help you find her.\\\" Antagonizing Yang was never going to work out.
For the second example, to me, a key point of Ozpin\\\'s character was him not wanting any of his allies to learn too much about Salem - specifically the part about her being an immortal and seemingly unkillable sorceress of supreme power - out of fear that they\\\'d either leave him or betray him, as had happened several times in the past (\\\"Do you really think Leo was the first? That he didn\\\'t say those exact words to me?!\\\"). In my book, that makes it IC for him to not tell the others about Salem, and to lie about the number of questions Jinn could answer (for fear they could use one to learn more about Salem), but I don\\\'t see it as OOC for him to not tell the others that the Relic draws Grimm. That last one barely relates to Salem at all, and to me it comes off as the [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking Jaywalking after the Arson and Murder]].
As for other reasons, for one, all of the heroes besides Ozpin have survived numerous battles with Grimm, the White Fang and Salem\\\'s henchmen by this point, and they were all together; they could probably handle a few extra Grimm. For two, isn\\\'t it common sense to tell your allies everything that might help them survive (In this case, \\\"We might have to deal with Grimm more frequently than usual while we\\\'re carrying the Relic, so make sure you keep your guards up\\\"). And for three, keeping secrets from your allies and trying to justify it on the sole basis of it being \\\"for their own good\\\" comes off as very high-handed (Weiss: \\\"I\\\'m getting really tired of other people deciding what\\\'s best for me.\\\") and only serves to sow mistrust in them when they inevitably find out the truth, as happened here.
That said, I could accept the second example being removed if it was shown that Ozpin vastly overestimated the Relic\\\'s ability to draw Grimm to it (In which case it would perhaps qualify as an InformedAttribute)
\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'You\\\'re basically saying that, because the conversation didn\\\'t go the way you wanted it to, it\\\'s What an Idiot!.\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"
Forgive me, but isn\\\'t that kind of the very nature of this trope? That we want characters to pick the courses of action that it makes the most IC sense for them to pick?
Anyway. In the scenario I wished had happened for the first example, Raven would have let Yang go to Ozpin after warning her about his duplicity, if she couldn\\\'t persuade Yang to remain in her camp. She\\\'d do this in the hope that Yang would choose not to keep on supporting Ozpin, after persuading or trying to persuade Ruby to do the same, and return to her mother afterwards. Though looking back, it would have made more sense for Raven to accompany Yang and Weiss through the portal (I\\\'m assuming that Raven can make a portal back to Vernal in this hypothetical scenario, seeing as the two of them were quite close), so that she could bring Yang back quickly.
Of course, such a thing would never happen, due to Ruby\\\'s personality and Yang\\\'s love for her little sister. I acknowledge that, but I thought it would have at least made more sense than Raven pretty much saying to Yang \\\"give up on your little sister despite how you were willing to track me down and force me to use my semblance to help you find her.\\\" Antagonizing Yang was never going to work out.
For the second example, to me, a key point of Ozpin\\\'s character was him not wanting any of his allies to learn too much about Salem - specifically the part about her being an immortal and seemingly unkillable sorceress of supreme power - out of fear that they\\\'d either leave him or betray him, as had happened several times in the past (\\\"Do you really think Leo was the first? That he didn\\\'t say those exact words to me?!\\\"). In my book, that makes it IC for him to not tell the others about Salem, and to lie about the number of questions Jinn could answer (for fear they could use one to learn more about Salem), but I don\\\'t see it as OOC for him to not tell the others that the Relic draws Grimm. That last one barely relates to Salem at all, and to me it comes off as the [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking Jaywalking after the Arson and Murder]].
As for other reasons, for one, all of the heroes besides Ozpin have survived numerous battles with Grimm, the White Fang and Salem\\\'s henchmen by this point, and they were all together; they could probably handle a few extra Grimm. For two, isn\\\'t it common sense to tell your allies everything that might help them survive (In this case, \\\"We might have to deal with Grimm more frequently than usual while we\\\'re carrying the Relic, so make sure you keep your guards up\\\"). And for three, keeping secrets from your allies and trying to justify it on the sole basis of it being \\\"for their own good\\\" comes off as very high-handed (Weiss: \\\"I\\\'m getting really tired of other people deciding what\\\'s best for me.\\\") and only serves to sow mistrust in them when they inevitably find out the truth, as happened here.
That said, I could accept the second example being removed if it was shown that Ozpin vastly overestimated the Relic\\\'s ability to draw Grimm to it (In which case it would perhaps qualify as an InformedAttribute)
