Meaning?: Brick Joke

Bumping this. It is still not resolved

Crowner is pretty solidly in favor of the Trope Transplant. Currently +15 with a 2.5 ratio. Do you think we can call it?

and changed again

So no

Still over 2:1 ratio and not mutually exclusive with the other option in the positive.

How about renaming Brick Joke to Chekhovs Shaggy Dog? The original brick joke incorporates the initial underwhelming payoff of a "Shaggy Dog" Story and the delayed payoff of a Chekhov's Gun, and these are the two characteristics currently described in the Brick Joke description.

The Brick Joke name can then either be retired, or rewritten as a humour only subtrope of Chekhovs Shaggy Dog, with a subtle distinction from Chekhov's Gag.

edited 5th Mar '11 9:53:23 PM by Blackfire

Bumping because it's been long enough, I believe, to call this thing.

OK, so do we go into the Sandbox for testing the redefinition?

Probably. I've been using Brick Joke as what the crowner decided on already. I also can't help but notice that Foreshadowing suffers from some example overlap with Chekhov's Gun and Brick Joke as well, and distinguishing between them is very nitpicky.

edited 2nd May '11 2:16:59 PM by Fighteer

The current description is definitely a trope, so I'd have thought the first thing to do would be decide on a rename for that. After that's renamed, begin work on the new definition of Brick Joke. Or do people think the current trope needs to go back through YKTTW?

Why was this discussion locked? There are still open questions. The page hasn't been rewritten to conform with the consensus on the crowner (although I have locked the crowner.). The decision may have been made, but the work isn't done.

edited 3rd May '11 10:29:37 AM by Madrugada

Thanks!

Now, in this huge thread, have there been any rewrite suggestions that I missed?

Bump. Was there a cleanup action that I missed? The crowner seems pretty clear on redefining it to be jokes only.

Still nothing done on this one, so I've put up a possible way forward in the sandbox: [1]

Basically, there will be three tropes; Chekhov's Gag, Brick Joke, and Chekhovs Shaggy Dog.

Laconics:

• Brick Joke: A funny payoff to any type of Chekhov's Gun.
• Chekhovs Gag: A Chekhov's Gun where the set-up, the gun itself, is a joke.
• Chekhov's Shaggy Dog: A Chekhov's Gun where the gun is introduced with a "Shaggy Dog" Story.

Pros:

• Preserves the Brick Joke name, and all associated inbounds, but without the confusion of it not being about jokes.
• Preserves the current definition of the trope.
• Brings Chekhov's Gag in line with other Chekhov's Gun definitions in referring only to the set-up.
• There's a consensus that something has to be done, and this is something.

Cons:

• Do we need all three tropes?
• Sorting out all the wicks may be soul-destroying.

Also, if you do think this general method is the way forward, how do you feel about the details of the execution I posted in the sandbox?

edited 10th Aug '11 9:48:48 PM by Blackfire

The way I've been seeing it used now is mostly Brick Joke is a joke on both sides. For example, Bob makes a joke, with a punchline and everything, and it is forgotten. Then later, it comes up again, still as a joke.

That would fit with , I'm just pointing it out.

The original, trope-naming Brick Joke wasn't like that. You told a joke that ended on a lame non-punchline, then a short while later, you told a second joke that initially seems unrelated but whose punchline ties the two jokes together.

Not to add another layer of difficulty to the issue, but there's this YKTTW currently in the works, which covers almost exactly what the proposed redefine of Chekhov's Gag does.

So, the way I see it, we have four tropes on the table:

• Brick Joke: being redefined to cover any Chekhov's Gun that returns in a funny manner.
• Chekhov's Shaggy Dog: more or less taking over the current definition of Brick Joke, where a Chekhov's Gun is introduced via a "Shaggy Dog" Story.
• Chekhov's Gag: as stands now, a Chekhov's Gun that is funny when it is set up and funny when it recurs. Proposed to change it to a Chekhov's Gun the is funny when it is set up, and either funny or dramatic when it recurs.
• Ascended Joke (the current YKTTW name): a Chekhov's Gun that is set up with/as a joke, and recurs in a dramatic manner.

Possible lines of action (as I see it):

• I think Brick Joke (new definition) and Chekhov's Shaggy Dog should be created/redefined regardless of which of the following lines of action is taken.
• Leave Chekhov's Gag as is, and let Ascended Joke be launched to cover the proposed redefine.
• Rename Chekhov's Gag to something else but keep the trope itself the same; launch Ascended Joke under the name Chekhov's Gag.
• Redefine Chekhov's Gag, assimilate the content in Ascended Joke into it, and then discard Ascended Joke.

Replied in the YKTTW thread. To summarise, I think there's sufficient distinction between my proposal for Chekhov's Gag, which is a single-joke set-up, and the new trope, which is a recurring joke set-up.

Since there isn't much action in this thread, here is a road-map for a possible action.

Brick Joke:

• Redefine as outlined previously.
• Remove links to the example pages. List a few examples on the main trope page.
• Place a warning that the definition has changed, and for anyone who follows an incorrect incoming wick to edit it to point to the correct trope.

Chekhov's Gag:

• Redefine as outlined previously.

Chekhov's Shaggy Dog:

• Start page as outlined previously.
• List a few examples on the main trope page.

General:

• Start a Special Efforts thread asking people to trawl through the now unlinked Brick Joke example pages and put them in the right trope(s), then delete the entry on the example page.

Anything else that needs to be done? If there aren't any more suggestions in the next ~week, I'll probably start putting this into action.

Edit Saturday 27th: Brick Joke and Chekhov's Gag are edited, Chekhov's Shaggy Dog is in YKTTW and the special efforts thread is here.

edited 27th Aug '11 3:12:12 AM by Blackfire