Touhou

Life uh uh finds a way

And doujin artists are nearly as determined.

So what does the Lunarian Hatedom think of this game? And what happened to the moon?

The Lunarian hatedom, as represented by one person in this thread, thinks they deserved to be attacked by Junko and got their just deserts. Unfortunately they survived.

I mean if their response to getting attacked is 'lets go wipe out these uninvolved people and steal their shit' then they kinda do deserve it

To be fair: they only sorta started preparing to commence doing that. They definitely put a pin in the idea though.

Just think: we could have cooler things living on the moon. Like venusian bat folk. And mighty moon worms.

The orbiting sub-world is our oyster, ripe for fertile imaginings.

edited 15th Aug '15 2:53:38 PM by Bocaj

Good point.

Which is impressive, because she's basically Space Hitler.

As far as I´m concerned, the Lunarians´ plan to purify Gensokyo was like the back up of the back up plan. It´s not like they were going to nuke Gensokyo because of "YOLO we can because Lunarians. Lulz" right after Junko invaded.

But still, that would have been a dick move.

edited 15th Aug '15 2:59:26 PM by Lelcat

Well, I'm still not sure how Chang'e was at fault. From what I've heard about the entire story, it seems mostly like Houyi's mess left to Chang'e to deal with, but I could be wrong. On that end, all of the Lunar Capital didn't deserve it.

As far as the purification plan goes, at least Sagume didn't want to do it. It was a last resort. And I'm at least confident the Watatsuki's would have objected, if they knew about it, since I believe most of the Lunar Capital were unaware of the move.

LoLK-related MMD already? Geez, Touhou fans are fast.

Ringo is definitely staying in Gensoukyou, not sure about Seiran. That said, I imagine that Hecatia can go wherever she likes (and bring her fairy posse along for the ride), and Sagume could presumably go to Gensoukyou if she felt like it. Junko, though...

Next fighting game is going to be interesting just to see who's in the roster

Sagume's ability/power/curse is too tempting a target for comedy to just throw away. I foresee many doujins that will have her Tempting Fate on a small scale (weather, bad luck, whatever).

Well, I haven't quite beaten the game on Normal yet, but I have 8 bombs and I'm on Junko's final Spell Rush, so I feel I'm in a good place to give my final thoughts on the game.

Stage 1: It's Stage 1. I don't love it. I don't hate it. Music isn't all that bad, or impressive. It is what it is.

Stage 2: A bit more fun, if simple. I don't really like the stage theme, but I was surprised how much Ringo's theme impressed me considering how little I thought of it during the demo. I got new headphones since then, maybe I was just listening to it wrong?

Stage 3: I love Stage 3. Stage is good, music is good, Doremy is great. Stage 3 gets an A+, moving on.

Stage 4: The music of Stage 4 is pretty good, and Sagume's is alright. The stage feels much easier than Stage 3 overall, but I have no problems with that. I've come to terms with the fact I've always played Touhou just to experience the bosses and music. I don't put any time into staying good once I've cleared a game. Though I am kind of disappointed that she didn't really have any Seija-esque spells, given who she is. I would have loved even one.

Stage 5: This stage is extremely fun. The music and the enemy waves really give a feel of just flying through a fairy playground. Which sounds kind of weird, but when you add the Earth slowly coming into view, it just becomes amazing. Then there's Clownpiece. This is why I play the games to experience bosses. I liked her before Stage 5, now I wish she didn't exist. Her theme isn't great either. Insanity power confirmed.

Stage 6: This stage is amazing. During the PK starstormy bit, I had a flashback to Area 6 on Starfox 64, and how happy I was to have made it Venom when I was a kid. I felt the same way about this Stage as I saw Junko appear before me. Junko's theme really works after all you've dealt with to get to her. Fighting her feels satisfying, it feels like you've made it to the final boss. Her spells are simple, but effective, and I can't argue with that. Stage 6 gets an A+ too.

Final Thoughts: While playing I realized there's something about how I think about protagonists I never quite realized. I impose my losses onto the protagonists when, canonically, they've breezed though each of the games up until this point. The spellcard rules exist for no other reason then to allow them to always win. These characters are not the underdogs, they're explicitly the heroes, and yet because, in my mind, they still have to survive six stages without getting hit, they're weaker for it. This game has Pointdevice as the canon route, and the difficultly still shines through. This is what it takes to harm a Touhou protagonist. This is a real threat to them. This time, we are playing the underdog. The game is incredibly, almost unfairly, difficult, and that makes it one of the best Touhou games I've played since joining this thread. Although the question of how everyone is prepared for a spellcard duel when they haven't been to Gensokyo remains unanswered. Probably for the best.

1. Magic.

2. Eirin´s shady new drug.

3. Yukari is fooling around again.

4. It´s a Moriya Shrine conspirancy.

You kinda asked for it, m8.

(Yeah, yeah I know old meme is old and I will shut up now.)

Well, her whole thing is not using her power, because it's too powerful, so it makes sense to me that she wouldn't. Magical robot master seems fitting to me.

Maybe Sagume said that she didn't think anyone understood what those Gensoukyou girls were doing

edited 15th Aug '15 6:00:02 PM by Hylarn

Sagume'll probably hang around the Watatsukis and use Toyo's power to beamu down to Earth whenever she's bored. Or something.

Yorihime knows the spellcard rules, I think. She probably popularized them as a new game or something after Silent Sinner.

edited 15th Aug '15 6:01:49 PM by asterism

Speaking of which, it's incredibly unclear how Sagume's power actually works. For one thing, not everything she says gets reversed, and secondly there's this weird notion of changing fate centered around the listener. Oh yeah, and fate: she talks about fate a lot. Reisen and Sanae also seem to think they're fated to win because they're doing what Sagume says (Reisen would be a more reliable source for this: Sanae's just kind of hyped up by being "the chosen one" in her own head).

Some hypotheses: 1) She can't change the past or the present, only the future. Essentially, her words control fate, and when she says something will happen, it won't. The most explicit example given in the game is her explaining her plan to invade Gensokyo, and then saying that by telling you that, she just guaranteed that it would fail, ie: she was betting everything on the protagonist. Her profile indicates that this somehow ensures Junko's plan will fail too though.

2) By telling the protagonists that she's betting on them (and giving a direct order to Reisen), she is not making it so that she's not betting on them, or ensuring that Reisen will fail. Indeed, Reisen becomes full of confidence to be backed by an Imperial Order from Sagume (also, she can give Imperial Orders, that's a thing), claiming that fate is on her side. In other words, only statements of intent or fact count: orders or general statements of encouragement do not have a "truth value" that can be reversed.

3) Negative statements are not reversed. When she's giving Sanae the silent treatment, she responds to Sanae's thoughts ("Is she hard of hearing?" "Is she ignoring me?") with "that isn't the case" before becoming taciturn again. Setting aside the fact that she seems to be reading Sanae's mind, or more likely predicting her thoughts, clearly she thought it was okay to say these things. Or maybe this just qualifies as another past statement?

4) Her words need to be heard by another to count. She can't just tell the world that Junko is going to win, she needs to talk to someone who might somehow affect Junko.

edited 15th Aug '15 6:15:11 PM by Clarste

I think it's a given that it only affects some of the thing she says, because this explains why she thinks before speaking.

Jaimers strikes again

Though, the urban legends were Sagume's power...

Oh my, they actually used the unfocused shot on the midboss pattern. What a magnificent bastard.

So she has Remilia powers except with a more specific method and more powerful probably?

You say that as though we have any idea what Remilia's ability actually is

Of course we do.

Its mumblemumble fate.

Well I wonder just who this one person could be. They sound like someone just as blinded by hatred as Junko.

edited 15th Aug '15 7:42:01 PM by TheMageofFire

That is the point: she wasn't. It's just that Junko has removed the reason for her grudge to the point where she has a grudge for Lunarians in general, with her focusing that grudge on Chang'e. And Hecatia is influenced by Junko to go with Revenge by Proxy. And I have a headcanon that Houyi is already dead.

Also, it seems that only Junko's son is dead, with her husband being in unknown situation.