Prostitution: Should it be legal?

I'm suspicious of the idea that prostitutes enjoy their jobs, for the same reason I'm suspicious of the idea that porn stars enjoy their jobs. (It's certainly easy enough to link video after video of porn actors and actresses who're clearly in it for the paycheck.) That's messy even when applied to vanilla sex, and in BDSM . . .

I'm sure that those people would appreciate being second-guessed on that matter.

But, as Sweden demonstrates, it certainly won't halt prostitution

I don't like this idea that if you can't eliminate something completely then you should not fight against it at all. Human trafficking isn't going anywhere either, but that doesn't mean that we should legalize, tax and regulate it.There are things out there that should simply be fought at all costs, regardless of whether you're winning the fight or not.

That may make you think "But what's so wrong with prostitution?", and the thing is that long ago I also thought that it should just be legalized because it's just a profession that just so happens to involve sex, but then I heard some actual stories from some actual prostitutes. And what particularly struck me was one woman describing it with "ït's like being raped for money".

Legalizing prostitution is basically telling prostitutes that their level of misery is acceptable, and I personally DEFINITELY don't find it acceptable.

And you know what's the biggest problem? The fact that policemen are all too happy turning a blind eye to prostitutes and just stopping cars that drive too fast. This world would be a happier place if those guys set their priorities straight and stopped being corrupt.

And by the way I'm against live-action porn too (but not against cartoon porn, since it's just drawn people having sex).

edited 30th Sep '10 10:19:18 PM by fanty

On the other hand, I've known, as personal acquaintances / minor-level friends, women who've worked as prostitutes and porn actresses. They were pretty fucked up young women, which seems to be the standard case in such things, though the social stigma of doing those things for a living is probably enough to require that. Neither of them would describe their experiences as being raped for money. Neither of them would describe the work as entirely pleasant either, but neither is working in a meat-packing plant or working in the fields in the height of summer. And several of them I knew both before and after quitting such work.

Beyond a certain point, saying prostitution or porn work is always akin to rape involves accusing these women of lying, and that's a step I'm not willing to take.

I wonder if we'd need to bring a prostitute into this topic to actually have a meaningful discussion of the subject . . .

It's certainly easy enough to link video after video of porn actors and actresses who're clearly in it for the paycheck.

And if they think that the paycheck is worth it who exactly are we to second guess them?

There is a reason they pay you to do a job, after all. It's probably because you wouldn't be doing it for fun. Unless you're very lucky, anyway.

Just look at all the burnt-out office drones. Does that mean that we have to outlaw accountancy?

Potentially a relevant question: who here would have sex with a prostitute?

Not me.

As for legalisation, that comment about it being "Like being raped for money" does make me reconsider legalising it...

@Feo: I plead the Fifth.

I have and would again.

That may make you think "But what's so wrong with prostitution?", and the thing is that long ago I also thought that it should just be legalized because it's just a profession that just so happens to involve sex, but then I heard some actual stories from some actual prostitutes. And what particularly struck me was one woman describing it with "ït's like being raped for money".

Which is one of the main arguments for legalizing it. It's more practical to improve working conditions than stamp it out.

I don't recall ever reading of a prostitute who claimed to love her job, but not all of them particularly dislike it either, and those with decent work environments fare much better than those without.

I agree people shouldn't be selling their organs, but it doesn't seem to me that legal prostitution would have any bearing on that moral axis. Perhaps you could explain your connection to me? I'm really curious.

The main connection I see between prostitution and, say, indentured servitude is that both professions operate on the premise that a human being is a commodity. If a woman (or a man) is legally allowed to do any act with their body so long as it constitutes a "service" that they are offering, people will abuse the system to expand what is legal and illegal.

Right now it is illegal to go out on the street, find a homeless person, and offer them food, shelter, and a nice sum of money, so long as they work for you without pay for the next fifteen years. If it is legal to sell your body for an hour or two of sex, why shouldn't someone be able to sell their body for a few years? I guess its a question of where to draw the line on basic human dignity. Prostitution to me crosses the line between treating a person as a person and treating them as an object.

At the same time, I'm well aware of the abuses in the prostitution industry, which is why I favor a system where in the spirit of the law it is illegal, but in actual practice prostitution is allowed (like in Victorian England). Hopefully that would reduce the abuse, while at the same time closes the door to wage-slavery and other unsavory institutions.

^It's legal to go up to a homeless person and say "I will offer you X amount of money if you dig this ditch for me".

So then I don't see what your complaint is.

If it is legal to sell your body for an hour or two of sex, why shouldn't someone be able to sell their body for a few years?

You're not selling your body for an hour or two of sex, you're selling the service of sex to someone. You can legally sell your services continually for a period of years. It's called "employment."

Slippery slope fallacy. Just because we allow prostitution does not mean we are going to allow slavery later on.

Right now it is illegal to go out on the street, find a homeless person, and offer them food, shelter, and a nice sum of money, so long as they work for you without pay for the next fifteen years.

For the record, depending on what amount one defines "a nice sum of money," this actually would be legal. So long as the "nice sum of money" equates to $15,600/year (minimum wage in the US, minus the cost for food and shelter, which, depending on where you live could make the final amount as low as $1,000) over 15 years (which, with no deduction for food/shelter, would be $234,000). If you give them that much, then you could have them work for you without pay for 15 years, because you paid them up front.

edited 1st Oct '10 7:40:20 PM by Swish

Raped for money? WTF? I'm sorry, but if she's comparing consensual sex with someone you don't like to actual RAPE...that is an insult to rape surviviors because it trivializes what they went through. The sex workers I know would claim the opposite. I guess it depends on the individual prostitute and what kind of prostitution it was (street hookers have it much worse than Ashley Dupre type escorts who make thousands). Paying to get abused...what? Since when is consensual sex abuse? Some customers can be abusive, but the act in itself is not abusive. Also, not all pimps are abusive and dominating. I know pimps who are humane, don't force the girls to do anything and have a pretty normal working relationship with them, and are even friends with some of them (he gave them places to stay, they help each other out etc) and ended up dating one of the girls for years (they're still together with no problems whatsoever).

Eh, it depends on the prostitute, I doubt you can make blanket claim on anything.

For the most part I'm for decriminalisation and even legalisation if it helps out women in the industry. The point is cost/benefit analysis. If I make it illegal what do I gain? Not a drop at all in prostitution levels, increased crime in connection with the profession, higher STD rate, deaths, violence and so on. If I legalise it, I get around the same amount of prostitution sans all that crap. So to me, I would legalise.

^^ If we can call sex while drunk rape, we can call sex for pay rape. If you're drunk there's at least a good chance you're enjoying it at the time.

How does that work? It's a matter of consent. Paying a person for their consent is still getting consent.

Indeed. How is 'I want to have sex with you because you're hot' any more consensual than 'I want to have sex because you're offering me money'?

If they can refuse, then its not rape. If they're not coerced into being a prostitute, it's not slavery. What's with all these ridiculous slippery slope arguments? Almost all these complaints can also be applied to any profession. While you could argue against the capitalist "wage slave" paradigm, someone choosing to do unpleasant work because they need the money is nothing new or interesting, and the least we can do is make sure they have decent working conditions and make at least minimum wage.

edited 21st Oct '10 3:16:43 AM by Clarste

To be fair to the prostitute in question, turning down any of her customers would probably have resulted in termination of employment, or perhaps abuse from her employer. Lots of people have jobs they find unpleasant and cause them a lot of stress which they put up with because they can't afford to go looking for a new job. Prostitution is like this for many people.

But making prostitution legal is likely to make work conditions better for prostitutes on the whole, and unlikely to leave more women who don't want to do it with no other financial option.