ME TOO! I CAN FEEL MY SINS MAKING MY STOMACH CLENCH AS MY TWISTED MORALS DISGUST EVEN MY SUBCONSCIOUSNESS!
...or I'm just hungry. Hungry for TOUHOU, that is!
We covered that topic on the earliest pages, people. It's part of character intepretation and how they mix with other characters. I don't ship Satori nor Koishi with anyone, mind, but then they haven't really caught my eye yet. I'll probably end up supporting the sister-ship pretty soon, though.
Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!
One Winged Egret
How did we get to this? Again? Maybe I shouldn't make jokes about shipping...
Sparky's outburst was directed at Zudak.
The Ghost of Years Past
Alright, I'm going to post Reisen shortly, I just need to finish it.
But while I was asleep, I see a shipping discussion started AND Koishi flaired back up.
So I feel a certain want to post about this, being both a shipper(IMHO) and a Koishi fan.
Anyway, first off, Koishi/Satori...
One of the common points I saw brought up was that they're sisters. I don't really like this arguement, due to a few reasons, at least all of which will most likely be disagreed with.
1. Satori lives in a former Hell and Koishi seems to be a master of subconscious, Fruedian psychology and has also spent a lot of time in Hell. Since Hell is presumably where sinners go, or rather went since this is an "Old Hell", I really doubt they had too big of an incest taboo to begin with. Could easily be wrong here, but it makes sense. They're kind of like the Prismrivers, I guess, although in their case I see it more as simply being Poltergeists and thus free from most of society's taboos and other such things.
2. Satori and Koishi are both girls. Just like with two guys, I think this takes away the main point of why an incestual relationship cannot work, which is the whole birth defect thing. Yes, I know people find it Squick, but the Squick is generally a more cultural thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see others in-universe Squick at their relationship, but I think it's entirely plausible that they not be Squick at each other(Or, as my mind usually has it, Satori being squicked at first by her own thoughts at it, and sometimes Koishi too).
3. TBH, IRL, I don't really see why incest is considered so taboo. So that most likely affects the way my mind thinks of pairings.
4. BLUH BLUH
I probably could go on, but that's enough for that point.
Next, why do I ship...
Because it's fun, I guess. I don't really feel a pathological need to ship every character, but shipping can result in a lot of fun ideas and stories, it can lead to some of the most teeth-melting pictures and overall, outside of the ever annoying Shipping Wars(I take the stance that as long as you write it and the story good, I won't condemn you for a ship), overall gives me a fun little thing to do.
Generally, in any given story, I won't ship all characters involved. Why I ship each character would take too long to list and be far too boring.
However, I could go into why I support Koishi/Satori.
First off, Koishi doesn't have much else and I doubt she would be very opposed to it. Satori, on the other hand, speaks to me as someone who's retreated to things like her pets, and is lonely for the fact that she is feared for her power and thus can't really connect with most people. Koishi is unique in that she is immune to Satori's power, a close friend and could potentially jumpstart the relationship by picking up on Satori's subconscious attraction.
Secondly, I just find it kind of adorable. Satori and Koishi are both pretty cute on their own, so when they get together like that it produces an even larger reaction of cuteness.
Thirdly, I don't really ship Utsuho or Orin much, so it becomes one of my first thought of ships for Satori, so I guess I gravitate towards it more.
...
You know, this all makes me wonder, how would Koishi read or possibly react to Satori liking her and picking it up with her power? I would imagine it would be a feeling she would have never felt in a person's subconscious before and Satori would understandably be a little coy about the issue. So how do you think that'd work? What would it feel or be picked up as, anyway?
Reisen coming shortly, once I finish it, again.
edited 27th Apr '10 2:49:14 PM by Ruki Motomiya
...I leave this thread for two days and we go to Koishi to Reisen to shipping to Koishi and Reisen and Shipping at the same time....
I love you guys. And, now that we're on shipping, I can explain my idiotic OC/Canon ships!
....but I'm far too lazy and I dont want even more Internet Drama. (Face it, when I first came into this thread, it was epically—at least in hindsight—derailed)
...speaking of Koishi, her power became much creepier after watching Neon Genesis Evangelion. Just the thought that she could alter your mind, and you wouldn't know....hell, you could reject it (as Shinji constantly did in NGE) but it's still there...bah, I cant explain it in words, but it's basically Nightmare Fuel to the highest degree.
"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
I never really got Koishi x Flandre; they're both too flighty. For either of them their partner would need to be working on their relationship for it to last. Or at least be around often, which Koishi isn't. Koishi x Satori has somewhat similar problems, since Satori doesn't seem to like putting much effort into anything.
edited 27th Apr '10 3:36:21 PM by Hylarn
Koishi x Satori has somewhat similar problems, since Satori doesn't seem to like putting much effort into anything. 
But yeah, Flandre/Koishi is a no-no for me, too. Flandre in general just... isn't shippable in my eyes. Not seriously.
Flandre in general just... isn't shippable in my eyes. Not seriously.Okay, I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but this "Flandre is an utter psychopath" is really stupid in my eyes.
She's not a utter psychopath, she seems more like a Genki Girl to me. It's just that Remilia was a lazy bitch and decided to lock her away instead of teaching her how to control her power.
edited 27th Apr '10 3:46:02 PM by Chagen46
"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
The Ghost of Years Past
Flandre is somewhere between psychopath and child.
She really doesn't fully understand the world and still has a child-like mind. Complete this with child-like curiosity and the power to blow everything up and you get someone who can't control their powers and will be fascinated by killing things. Which is somewhat psychopathic. But that's more because, like a kid, I don't think she fully grasps the concepts of what she's causing.
Man we're really banging out characters to talk about today.
I'm not even saying Flandre is an utter psycho. She is however, an utter child. So there's the reason right there.
Funny but not helpful
Unreliable narrator Akyuu says that Flandre might be a shut-in who chooses to stay in the basement. Realistically, if she wanted out, nothing could keep her in there. But that's a debate for another day. Koishi sure is awesome. Studies psychology and doesn't afraid of anything.
Edit:
Although she is usually docile, her insanity makes it difficult for others to understand her.Maybe not psychopathic but certainly hard to relate to. If Koishi were more anchored she might be a good match, friend or otherwise, for Flandre but the two of them really have similar problems of being hard to relate to.
edited 27th Apr '10 4:02:39 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gentleman Adventurer!
Let's keep this slightly on-topic by making a point of, for now, not talking about anyone except Koishi or Reisen except in the context of shipping.
I don't really ship in the romantic sense, because I don't want to read romance. It bores me. However, I don't mind it as long as it's more a friendship thing, or if the sex/romance aspect is kept mostly off-camera. In that sense, I'll happily take a Flandre paired with a few people, but since I don't really care about Koishi and there's no real reason for it she's not one of them (the primary one besides Remilia is Mokou, a friendship that just works for all sorts of reasons, and perhaps Marisa because it makes sense and is pretty close to something resembling canon). I actually am not that interested in Satori either, so there's no reason I'd bother "shipping" two characters I don't pay attention to.
Your funny quote here! (Maybe)
The Ghost of Years Past
...
...\\
...
...\\
...
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Reisen Udongein Inaba
Theme:\\ Lunatic Eyes Lunatic Eyes Invisible Full Moon (PoFV), Lunatic Eyes Þ Invisible Full Moon (SWR)
Traits:
- Dressed to Kill (In Imperishable Night, anyway)
- Straight Man, more rarely the Only Sane Man
- Despite being one of the normal members, powers of lunacy.
- Or maybe she isn't so normal?
- Butt-Monkey => The Chew Toy <=> The Woobie
- Gets a lot of Fanservice in fanon.
Relationships/Shipping:
- Eirin(Teacher, master and possible love interest.)
- Tewi(Fellow rabbit, although Reisen is a Lunar Rabbit and Tewi is an Earth Rabbit. Frequent victim of Tewi's pranks.)
- Kaguya(Princess and therefor master. Much rarer but still potential love interest.)
- Watatsuki no Toyohime(Former master)
- Watatsuki no Yorihime(See Toyohime, depending on if you care about Silent Sinner in Blue or not.)
- Neil Armstrong(Potential sworn enemy and/or lover)
Write-up:\\ The Stage 5 boss of Imperishable Night and later a playable character in Phantasmagoria of Flower View, Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and by extension Unthinkable Natural Law. She's also one of the Stage 4 bosses in the original Shoot the Bullet.
A Lunar Rabbit with the power of insanity, which makes her very dangerous. However, her canon personality seems to be enough of a more mellow, somewhat Straight Man-ish type to explain why we aren't all dead. She also can manipulate wavelengths, the length of which could be hotly debated, and has the somewhat less useful power to telepathically communicate with other lunar rabbits.
She also, funny enough, was the largest part in directly starting the plot of Imperishable Night, and was actually the one the Lunarians were coming for. But Eirin and Kaguya figured they'd be found out when they got Reisen, and thus Imperishable Night.
She apparantly deserted other Lunar Rabbits in the Lunar War, most likely leaving them to fight and/or die by themselves. Wether this was cowardice or not could be easily debated.
A very common character to appear in fanwork, even in works where Eientei is not highly present, and notably one of the oldest characters who has remained popular without a defined canon personality. Is she a useless bunny, only good for her sex appeal? A young and overeager student under the wonder pharmisicst Eirin? Or perhaps a very studious disciple? Does she have any screws lose or is she really the unfortunate target of being somewhat sane in Gensokyo? Are the ears real or not?
Wether she falls in to Butt Monkey, Chew Toy or Woobie generally depends on what type of work it is and how much time Reisen is given. She can easily fall into none of these categories as well. More comedic works, of course, fall towards Butt Monkey and Chew Toy-ism, while Woobieness only shows up in more dramatic works. The Woobie version of Reisen is much rarer then the other two.
Her dialogue in Po FV suggests she can manipulate sound waves and her profile in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody explicitly states Reisen's power over waves as quite large. For specific quoting...
"It's common knowledge that light is made of waves, but there's more to sight than just that. Space itself is waves, and the creatures, things, and of course, light in it are also all made of waves.
Naturally, the thoughts and feelings of living things also consist of waves, and their wavelengths determine personalities.
Reisen can control these waves."
To put it simply, Reisen is one of the most veristile characters in the entire fandom.
WHAT'S YOUR GAME? I-I MEAN
WHAT'S YOUR REISEN?
Similar characters:
- Youmu Konpaku(Both are servants of somewhat more tricky masters, who are often seen being played around with by their respective masters. Both could possibly qualify as the Straight Man.)
Misc:
- If the Watatsukis did indeed give her the name of Reisen, then Reisen would appear to have no name given to her by a non-Master(Reisen by the Watatsukis, Udongein/Udonge by Eirin and Inaba by Kaguya).
- Reisen's various alternate costumes in the fighting games are usually references to the Vocaloid series.
- Reisen's ears appear to have buttons on them. Are they detachable or real?
- "Udonge", the short version of the nickname Eirin calls her by, translates to "plantain flower," whose buds look remotely like rabbit ears.
- A useless little bunny, only good for her sex appeal.
EDIT: It appears the theme part is a bit messed up for some reason. I'll get on that right now.
EDIT 2: And that's fixed. I dunno if the /s are because you don't need two like was given, but I don't want to delete them and mess this up so I'm going to leave it as is.
edited 27th Apr '10 4:07:33 PM by Ruki Motomiya
Funny but not helpful
More than anything else, my view on Reisen is shaped by her starring role in Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth. If you haven't read it yet, I'd suggest giving it a whirl. In my opinion, its the best official Touhou comic.
The "useless little bunny" meme is from the Omchicken "Drunkards in Eientei" doujin.
And as a supporter of crack shipping, I have to say that Armstrong/Reisen (Reistrong?) is the OTP.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
The Ghost of Years Past
Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth is one of those things where I'm all "Oh I'll read it next week it's not going anywhere."
Then next week comes and I'm all "Oh man I've got things to do, I'll read it next week."
Or I just forget.
It's a nasty cycle.
So, officially on Reisen now. Basically two versions of her. Canon Reisen is more or less The Stoic. She doesn't talk much and is focused on whatever task she's working on. However, this version of Reisen doesn't seem to be used to life in Gensoukyou, as she avoids others and has no idea how to handle Tei. Fanon (and Inaba, which is closer to fanon than canon) Reisen is basically a completely different person. Generally well meaning but a bit naive, she's both the Butt-Monkey and the Chew Toy.
edited 27th Apr '10 4:18:11 PM by Hylarn
Court Dragon
Speaking of Reisen/Youmu similarities, the two of them ended up as partners in Tag Dream
They end up fighting Reimu/Remilia in the first fight though, so they end up losing. It was an interesting match, though.
I have a message from another time...
The Ghost of Years Past
Yeah, I remember that.
Despite the fact Youmu/Reisen seemed to be the bad guys in that match, I reeeeally wanted them to win.
It doesn't hurt they seemed to have more emotion into the match I think, and they had more of their training shown then Remilia/Reimu.
But oh well you can't win them all.
I missed this avatar.
Reisen's someone I have a bit of trouble characterizing in my head, although lately I've been kind of getting something somewhat solid.
I guess I kind of imagine Reisen closer to the fanon interpretation, in that I generally see her as sweet but submissive, the kind of person who'd much rather just have someone else make choices for her, although I'm not opposed to her showing some sort of hidden depths. I also tend to imagine Eirin/Reisen as a minor twist on your typical BDSM relationship - Eirin is Reisen's domme not because she wants to belittle and degrade her, but because it makes Reisen happy and she specifically wants Eirin as her domme. It's a little bit more intimate than one may expect. Granted, maybe I'm just weird, this may not strike anyone else as sweet at all.
The main reason the relationship strikes me as interesting is when compared to the other "master/servant" relationships people (me) tend to support; Yuyuko/Youmu and Aya/Momiji. They each have their own interesting little dynamics keeping them different.
This video is what got me into Eirin/Reisen and pretty much sums up the whole relationship in my eyes: Eirin is mean to Reisen, sometimes excessively so, but she does legitimately care about her.
edited 27th Apr '10 4:28:02 PM by StarkMaximum
WHO IS THIS LOSER
^^^I had a huge problem with that match: Youmu was weak. She's a goddamn swordsman, she should be one of the strongest characters in the cast! Especially compared to Reimu, who mostly just uses spiritual powers.
edited 27th Apr '10 4:28:11 PM by Hylarn
I missed this avatar.
I had a huge problem with that match: Youmu was weak. She's a goddamn swordsman, she should be one of the strongest characters in the cast! Especially compared to Reimu, whois a main character.
WHO IS THIS LOSER
The Ghost of Years Past
I presumed Reimu was using her spiritual powers to focus into physical attacks and make her physically stronger. Kind of using principles of more mystical versions of I think chi or qi.
Also, I'd imagine Youmu wasn't the best at hand-to-hand because she's a swordsman. After all, she's used to having a longer range and much more power with weaker strikes, so it seems like it'd be harder to adjust.
Remilia also has a vampire's higher natural strength, while Youmu is half-human(And half-ghost might not provide much of a strength increase) and I think Reisen is about as average as it gets in Gensokyo physical power.
Court Dragon
Reimu also canonically is a martial artist (well OK the only game that's mentioned that was Highly Responsive To Prayers, but...)
edited 27th Apr '10 4:31:16 PM by Enlong
I have a message from another time...
Funny but not helpful
Above all else, Reisen is a fish out of water. More than Sanae even because Sanae got into that whole abandoning common sense thing. The only people that can really understand her background are Eirin and Kaguya and they would have been from the class that oppresses/commands/employs the moon rabbits so they still wouldn't really get her. She's nominally in charge of the rabbits of Eientei but in reality they listen to Tewi. Tewi herself seems to ignore Reisen whenever she wants. In Reisen's interview with Aya, Reisen mentions this sort of thing.
I'm the only Lunarian rabbit, so I don't have that much camaraderie.Well, come on, the Earth rabbits won't listen to me at all!At least Eirin's treatment of Reisen (fanonically borderline abusive) should stave off homesickness. If the Inaba comic can be believed, she was treated the same way by the Watatsuki's who were treated the same way by Eirin.
Reisen might by the loneliest person in the series, even if its an alone in a crowd type of loneliness.
Tag Dream edit: About the Remilia/Reimu vs. Youmu/Reisen fight. Sanae at least was using her powers in her bouts to create a barrier and soften blows from a Flanpire. As the barrier miko, Reimu would probably be even better at that.
edited 27th Apr '10 5:12:05 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
I AM A TERRIBLE PERSON BECAUSE I SHIP CHARACTERS OH NO
Edit: sup new page
edited 27th Apr '10 1:45:44 PM by StarkMaximum
WHO IS THIS LOSER