It's a Gundam thread!

Well the Wing self-destruct knocked him out for like a month or something.

This isn't G Gundam. It's just closer to G than normal Gundam. It's in a weird middleground.

Why does Heero heal so fast?

Time in Wing is very wonky, things that should take months take days and such.

Wing doesn't have newtypes, but people who can use the Zero System are the functional equivalent. Using the Zero System requires a vaguely defined specialness that boils down to a plot device by the writers (either you have the ability or you don't, and there's no way to deliberate get it if you don't have it) and having it allows you to use specialized equipment that makes you (even more) monstrously powerful in combat — all of which is equally true of newtypes.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Hey now. It's possible to turn someone into a newtype

I'd guess the closest thing to Newtypism in Wing is just being a real 'ard boy. Heero was also trained to be a soldier and assassin from a young age, according to side material, so it's possible that he somehow became tough as nails in 15 years of life (with all that implies). Zechs similarly spent some amount of time fencing with his butler when he was a small boy.

Also, as for Wing in general, I think it helps to look at it as a sort of conceptual successor to G Gundam. A world in need of fixing (Earth and space), and five warriors are put in charge of safeguarding Earth (Shuffle Alliance/Meteor pilots), each of them surprisingly capable in combat and piloting nation or region-themed or inspired Gundams (America, Europe, China, Japan, and Western Asia), opposed by one idealistic man who helps and hinders them (Master Asia/Zechs), and a lot of duels along with fighting big armies (Death Army/OZ) and tangling with political maneuvers (Neo-Japan and Neo-Hong Kong/Romefeller Foundation and Barton Foundation), having shifting priorities (The Gundam Fight and the Devil Gundam/OZ and the Sanc Kingdom), and finally fighting one big-ass enemy at the end to unite the world (Gundam Federation/UESF) towards a better future (Devil Gundam/Libra).

edited 20th Apr '16 11:26:20 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

One could say that Wing is a mashup of the ideas of UC and G Gundam.

Speaking of Relena, although she's a Sayla expy, were there any other females before her who were similar to her in terms of character and attitude (i.e., a proto-Relena)?

Would Cecily Fairchild count, although she's likely based on Sayla?

edited 21st Apr '16 12:45:52 PM by JudasZala

In Gundam EX A manga, it's noted that After Colony timeline is notable for completely lack of so-call "evolved" human. (for Future Century, it's Gundam Fighters).

edited 21st Apr '16 10:29:38 PM by Kuruni

Technically, there was Quatre talking about "The Heart of Space"... No idea what the heck he was going on about though.

Out of Hiroko Moriguchi's songs, which one was the best one she's done for the franchise? For me, it's Starry Spirits from SD Gundam G Generation Spirits.

Probably related to the "Souls weighed down by gravity" bit.

Which reminds me. Aren't the Spacenoids still tied to Earth's gravity as it's thanks to that and orbital power that they aren't flying off into deep space? So doesn't that mean their souls are still weighed down by gravity?

You know, I was rereading a book of mine earlier this year, 2312, and at one point one character, who would definitely count as a Spacenoid, came really damn close to quoting the "souls weighed down by gravity" line almost verbatim.

I decided to put the book down for a while afterward before I got mad.

edited 22nd Apr '16 7:24:20 AM by ComicX6

My Megaman and MegaTen liveblogs

My interpretation of that line is that, "gravity" refers to the past, in that, the Earth is our past, and our obsession with the past, which is Earth, is that, even if we live in space, we still treat Earth as our master. By fully abandoning the Earth, in that, we should not fear what space offers, we move to the future.

That's a fair interpretation of their beliefs. I would argue that we can't fully Abandon Earth while it can still support life but rather treat it better.

That's definitely what Crux Dogatie was going for... but then, he was also just plain Axe-Crazy.

Saying that Wing doesn't have any "evolved" humans but disqualifying G Gundam for having super martial artists seems like splitting hairs, to me.

Taken literally, yes. Being in orbit actually means "going sideways really fast", not "being really high up". Relevant XKCD on the subject.

As a metaphor, though, it works pretty well. It's a reference to people being (psychologically, not physically) tied to Earth. Newtypes are (according to Zeon Deikun, at least) some sort of Enlightenment Superpower you get from understanding your place in the wider universe, rather than being stuck in the mindset of an Earthling. Saying that someone's soul is weighed down by gravity is a poetic way of saying they're still in an oldtype mindset.

It's also a crock of shit, but that's what happens when you take your pithy sayings from people like Char.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

In Gundam seemingly the only way to 'treat it better' is to abandon it for a lengthy amount of time.

Sorry to off-topic, but I have something to ask to Memers: Got my PM?

Now, onto something on-topic: Universal Century AMV to the tune of Mou Hitotsu no Mirai ~Starry Spirits~ from SD Gundam G Generation Spirits.

edited 22nd Apr '16 11:56:03 PM by HallowHawk

Sorta releveant to that, from reading some SCP Foundation stuff, I encountered what's probably the closest thing to RL Zeonism/Newtypism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cosmism

Frankly, I always thought Zeon was inspired by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky's "But one cannot eternally live in a cradle" quote, but I hadn't realized the extent to which it involved a move to space radically changing the nature of man.

I do sort of think a universal empathetic recognition of each other's humanity would reduce conflict, but I doubt it would eliminate it, as there would still be issues of ideology and different conceptions of right and wrong. Outlooks that deny the existence of value pluralism are inherently tyrannical.

So I think, given the universe, Zeon was kinda onto something, but one thing I really do appreciate about Gundam The Origin is how unsympathetic it paints Zeon and his followers; Zeon's an ideologue who literally compares himself to Christ and probably worked himself to death; Jimba Ral is a blustery, anxiety-ridden paranoiac' and Real!Char is a 'good patriotic spacenoid' rearing to kill for the Zeon cause while Casval's all "Yeah sure whatever". I really like how they portray Casval as completely disinterested in his Father's politics and only interested in revenge against the Zabis.

edited 23rd Apr '16 9:31:35 PM by ScherzoPrime

Well, the real reason that Zeon is full of shit is that he pulled the whole newtype prediction out of his ass as a way to justify demanding that people move into space. Apparently "people living on Earth are fucking up the environment, everyone should live in space to let nature recover" wasn't convincing enough, so he added "oh, also, living in space will make everything better for everyone, forever, because Reasons" to his pitch. The fact that people with psychic powers actually started showing up is basically a staggering coincidence (but it's worth noting that those people aren't actually Deikun's newtypes, since they don't lead humanity to a golden age of peace through understanding one another).

But yeah, I generally agree with the sentiment that a world with newtypes (meaning the people with psychic powers, not Deikun's hypothetical messiahs) is better than a world without newtypes, if only because they do manage to bridge some otherwise impossible gaps. But bringers of eternal peace and saviors of mankind they aren't.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Well, to give Zeon a bit benefit of the doubt, he and the rest of the Spacenoids had been uprooted rather abruptly from their national contexts on Earth, and that can create a vacuum of identity that concepts like Spacenoidism and Newtypism. Add to that a very human tendency of wanting to attach a deeper, spiritual meaning to human progress, as attested to by the page on Late Imperial Russian/Early Soviet philosophy on Space Exploration I linked to, I think it's understandable that a good portion of people would believe that humanity living among the stars would be a transformative experience.

...Whether that's true or not is an entirely different matter, but I can understand why Zeon and his followers would believe that. I sorta see Zeon as someone who at first, when struggling to contextualize the difficulties of the early period of Space Colonization, came to believe we are witnessing a transformative epoch in human history, found support for his beliefs in the willing masses, and that forged a feedback loop that in time went straight to his head.

edited 23rd Apr '16 9:34:42 PM by ScherzoPrime

Apparently, Crossbone Gundam is getting another sequel: Crossbone Gundam Dust◊.

What's interesting about this one is that it takes place in UC 168... which means a UC story that actually takes place post-Victory. Unless one counts alternate continuity things like Gaia Gear and G-Savior, I think that's a first.

Did Ghost finish? Damn, I need to get around to reading that.

but HOW?

A) I thought they never actually got around to decanonizing G-Savior? B) Isn't Crossbone itself alternate continuity?

We've been over this several times over the years, but there really isn't a concept of 'Official Canon' with Anime. It's just what is animated and what isn't.