It's a Gundam thread!

Zeta and Victory.

Turn-A (and G-Reco) is Tomino on antidepressants.

You know what... I'm gonna go through the original MSG, move onto Recongusta and Turn A.

If I wanted to watch bright, colourful and interesting Mecha designs beat the shit out of each other in a extremely depressing story and setting I'd watch Evangellion.

0083 isn't THAT bad, it has some of the best strategic mobile suit action in Gundam early on and pretty much everything but one 'plot detail out of nowhere' is quite serviceable.

Both Openings are top notch they are easily in my favs pile.

Or Space Warrior Baldios, which is basically the anti-thesis to, say, Getter Robo, in that the formers' spirit and ideals are the exact freaking opposite of the latters', ending with one of the most depressing endings ever in a mecha show, or at least when it comes to the movie.

I would have said Space Runaway Ideon, which was actually made by Tomino, but while the ending takes Kill Em All to its logical conclusion, it's also strangely uplifting and majestic. It has to be seen to be believed. (Much like NGE, unfortunately.)

edited 4th Mar '15 7:27:08 AM by kkhohoho

I can't think of anything bad about 0083 that isn't redeemed by the Dendrobium.

@Nikkolas

Nothing you've said there proves a damn thing and challenging people to reignite an old argument is poor form. I won't speak for everybody who disagreed with you the first time round, but I was already aware of the incident you're mentioning and it doesn't make any difference. I'm not especially interested in rehashing an old debate again, so this is about as lengthy a response as I'll type up.

I'm inclined to believe there's nothing at all redeeming about 0083.

And Zeta isn't necessarily demonizing the Feddies, just saying that the AEUG is the only faction that actually Gets Shit Done. Titans are still evil, Zeon is also extremely evil (and really fond of hitting things with a giant rock).

Zeta makes the Feds just look complaisant in everything, they won't do anything unless pressured and listen to which ever side has their ear.

The supplemental materials and other series make them out to be far worse, apathetic at minimum and at times hopelessly corrupt or just a pack of elitists don't want to lose control over their earth empire.

edited 4th Mar '15 1:15:59 PM by Memers

They are just plain racist against Spacenoids. That is the entire point of the AEUG - the Earth Federation gives no shits about space and if they do think about it, it's in a hostile way. They took the greatest hero of the One Year War and imprisoned him and made sure no one knew about his many great accomplishments because he was a Spacenoid.

Honestly, just watch the episode where Char and Blex go to Earth to try and keep the Federation from handing over supreme military authority to the Titans. They have an entire conversation where they just go "man, the Federation sucks" over and over.

EDIT:

Question for those who have read The Origin. Is it true Gihren let General Revil escape in order to ensure the war continued and the Federation didn't surrender? Because, if so, that's really dumb.

edited 4th Mar '15 8:31:46 PM by Nikkolas

Again it isn't like Spacenoids are much better considering the massive amounts of racism and moral myopia with them.

So again I conclude everything is shit.

Because Char Aznable, traitor, murderer, and former Zabi family enforcer should be trusted as a source of reliable knowledge about the EF.

I just reread that section to double-check, and actually, the Origin suggests that it was Degwin Zabi who let Revil go.

Basically, Degwin was heavily against the war, especially after Loum, but Gihren's political influence had grown too much for him to act openly. He discussed his desire to end the war with Revil while he was in captivity, and Revil seemed to agree with him. Degwin then arranged for a Federation force to successfully break Revil out.

Unfortunately for him, Revil took Degwin's desire for peace to mean that Zeon was on the brink of collapse and desperate to end the war lest they be wiped out utterly, leading him to deliver the "Zeon is exhausted!" speech. Degwin was absolutely furious when he saw that transmission, and it lead him to change his stance and support the war... at least until Garma's death.

One snag in the operation is when Char Aznable, who was not in on Degwin's plan, caught the Federation escape ship in Zeon territory and boarded it, with intent to capture. When he saw that Revil was on board, however, he guessed what was going on and let them go without further hassle, saying to his subordinates that reporting this ship to the Zeon brass would "ruin the theater of politics".

edited 4th Mar '15 9:19:30 PM by DarkHunter

That sounds more like it. I'm not wild about them making The Origin at all, but least Degwin's getting some character development.

Well that makes more sense. Gihren letting Revil go would completely contradict his plan at the beginning of the war.

Thank you.

Regarding Federation vs Titans, the idea was never that every individual in the Federation bureaucracy was an angelic defender of freedom and justice, or the they didn't share some of the responsibility for the Titans' actions because of their failure to properly reign them in. The point is that the Titans came up with the whole mass murder and oppression thing on their own, and the Federation's crime is failing to stop them. It's not the case that the Federation knew about and approved of the Titans' plans beforehand. Even the bit of text Nikkolas quotes (which I'll note is from a 0083 source, well after the franchise's whitewashing of Zeon had started) says that the Titans got away with it because they had influence over the Federation, not because the Federation liked what they were doing.

Regarding Kamille-and-Haman vs Judau-and-Haman, that's pretty much what I've been saying with the whole Newtype thing all along. Kamille is a barely coherent ball of anti-authoritarian rage, so he looks at Haman and sees a woman who intends to impose her will on the Earth Sphere and judges her to be an irredeemable villain. Judau is a much more well-adjusted guy who just wants everyone to stop killing each other, so he looks at Haman and sees a Misanthrope Supreme who only tries to put her jackboots on humanity's collective neck because 1) she honestly believes it's the only way to stop everyone from killing each other, and 2) because they all have it coming anyway. (The sad thing is that Judau tries to convince Haman that she she's wrong about humanity and she doesn't have to be a ruthlessly brutal dictator, which ends up leading Haman to decide that Kamille was right about her, and she's unsalvageable as a human being. Haman is actually a rather tragic villain, all told.) Anyway, the point is that neither Kamille nor Judau are wrong in what they see in her, it's just that as different people with different backgrounds, they react to it in nearly opposite ways.

Regarding the Federation being racist against spacenoids, Char (and people parroting him) claim that repeatedly, but it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. Certainly the Titans are, but consider the fact that the group that replaces the Titans after they and Neo Zeon are defeated is Londo Bell — with Bright as the commanding officer and Amuro as their ace pilot, and geared up with all the latest and greatest tech in the EFF arsenal. If they had some sort of irrational hatred of spacenoids (or Newtypes, or whatever) then why would they have set a bunch of former AEUG members and known or suspected Newtypes to run their anti-spacenoid-rebellion task force?

It also goes back to the issue with the majority of Gundam protagonists probably being spacenoid themselves; we still don't know where Amuro was born exactly.

Depending on the continuity, either somewhere in North America or Japan. He was definitely born on Earth, but just as definitely has the attitudes and loyalties of a spacenoid.

I rather like the idea that he is half-mexican. He would be one of the few hispanic characters to be protagonist of a japanese show.

I haven't watched the series, where does the half-mexican part come from?

If I am not mistaken it's a retcon from Origin.

Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin.

Edit:

edited 6th Mar '15 10:22:08 AM by AntonioCC

Ah. Okay then that makes sense.

Now... Least favorite suits? Hero and Villain!

IIRC one of the companion pieces for the original gundam said he was from south america too. Yeah decide on something...

And least fav suits? Umm all the suits from AGE except for the AGE-2. The designs for all the suits were pretty horrid.

Legilis is not horrible at all.

Well, I looked at some suits from AGE. Just one question: why oh why are their legs so long?