The Hobbit

It's a great theory, and further holds up because once we get Gandalf the White back on his quest Frodo and Sam are 'beyond his sight' and Suaron is no longer the soul problem now that Sauraman has amassed such an army.

He says that like right after they entered Mordor, didn't they? Considering Sauron is strongest there and at that point Saruman was no longer a threat I'm not surprised that he couldn't see them.

Actually, he says it just before Frodo and Sam get to the city of the dead. It was in conversation with Pipin while they were looking at the fires of Mount Doom in the distance, but then suddenly a great beam of light erupts as the film cuts to Frodo and Sam and Gollum outside the dead city.

I stand by the rationale that flying the Ring to Mordor would be incredibly visible. Sauron would spot them instantly, and the Nazgul would be upon them long before they ever reached the Black Gate.

It's about as stealthy as knocking on the Black Gate and asking, "May we pass? We have this ring that needs to be destroyed in one of your volcanoes."

edited 5th Aug '14 9:20:23 PM by TobiasDrake

I've always accepted that argument. Sauran was effectively exacting a blitzkrieg over Middle Earth.

Not only that, but it's explicit that the eagles strait up would not willing interact with the ring.

Sauron.

Saruman

And anyway it would make them incredibly visible, and Gandalf outright says that Sauron has many birds among his spies. And a bunch of eagles flying together in the direction of Mordor would be pretty visible to birds.

edited 6th Aug '14 9:46:26 AM by theLibrarian

I'm so bad to spelling fantacy names and words.

In news; the extended cut of Desolation of Smaug is three hours long with 25 minuets added footage.

I'm surprised; when I watched Do S I got the distinct impressed a lot more of the story had been cut out.

Such as when they're in the stable and Bilbo wakes up to witness Beorn walk in the film suddenly cut away and didn't show us Gandalf having to explain the intrusion as more and more dwarves wake up and Gandalf has to remedy his story.

It also seemed clear that there was meant to be an extended scene of the company stuck in the Lonely Mountain crypt which was going to be the crux of Thorin's and Bilbo's character journey in the film.

Considering Beorn chased them all into his house in the movie, I think, they probably thought he was unnecessary.

I've only just seen Desolation of Smaug. One question:

Is it silly that I found Laketown........out of place? It seemed like it didn't fit in Middle-Earth, at least not how I remember it from the LOTR movies. It seemed.....culturally further ahead than any settlement I remember from that. Like, the paintings in the Master's room and some of his other possessions, just a general vibe to the details....I know it's a place unto itself, but it seemed.....ahead of how I saw civilization in Middle-Earth.

Am I completely wrong?

There was high civilization in Middle-Earth at various times. The Numenoreans, Gondor and Arnor before the line of kings failed, etc. When evil isn't wrecking things, all the races aspire to cultural growth.

Also, the men of Dale profited immensely by their trade with the Dwarves of Erebor, before Smaug came.

edited 18th Aug '14 9:38:38 AM by Fighteer

It seemed about Shire-level to me, I think.

The Northeast corner of Middle Earth was oddly advanced compared to basically everyone else, which could just be a clash of Early-Installment Weirdness for lodging the less-mythical and more mundane Hobbit into the much more "mythic" Lord of the Rings style. While the great theme for the entire franchise is the separation between the races and how easily it can be exploited, the region around Erebor was a model for cooperation between Dwarves, Men, and even the forest Elves. Up until the dragon came, all of them seemed to get along fine, and after the battle of five armies, much the same, cooperation and interracial harmony as a norm, whereas apartness was the rule in other parts of middle earth (except in Bree).

Also yes, the north in general tended to have a more rennaissance-era feel to its technological level, whereas Rohan was more Dark Ages and Gondor was kind of late-classical, despite Gondor supposedly being the hub of all development that remained.

In short, it's an inconsistent world in terms of technical development.

edited 19th Aug '14 8:33:08 AM by Ogodei

In shorter, The Hobbit was never meant to be set in Middle-Earth.

Initially. But Tolkien decided to do some World Welding (is there a trope like this) by inserting The Hobbit within the context of LOTR and doing the necessary changes.

Personally, I don't feel that Lake Town is too un-Middle Earth-y, mostly due to its location, which is far closer to the East. The only place that gets close is Gondor in that regard (although they're still quite different)

Besides, Lake Town, until Smaug's arrival, was a rich trading city/town. In a sense, it's like Bree, only with less/no Hobbits hanging around frequently (that is, a city which is a mixture of peoples and styles and, therefore unlike the traditional groups in Middle Earth - elves, dwarves, humans from Arnor or humans from Gondor, etc.

edited 19th Aug '14 6:34:58 AM by Quag15

Canon Welding.

I know that one, but it's more related to continuity and time than adjusting the parameters and specifics of a world or a scenario in accordance with another world or scenario.

But I suppose continuity also involves spatial elements, so, my point is meaningless.

"Leave Sauron to me!"

And we all know how THAT turned out.

Other than that this looks awesome XD I can't wait to see it. I wonder how much of the time the two battles are going to take up, though. They're the main focus of the movie but they can't be too long because Ending Fatigue...

Welp, I just saw a TV spot for The Hobbit 3, and speaking frankly, I can't think of a movie series that built my hopes up so much so fast, and then dashed them to pieces just as fast, as this trilogy has. At this point, I'm starting to think Christopher Tolkien is 100% right in not wanting his dad's books to be turned into easily consumable films for the mass public. I think if I watch this last movie, I may not even be able to watch the Lord of the Rings movies afterwards without seeing the same problems.

Explain yourself please.

The Lord of the Rings movies had the opposite problem: they had to cut content. These movies suffer from padding. Some of it is good padding (i liked the fleshing-out of Lake Town politics last film, myself), but the padding that is less-good is quite glaring (Elf chick x Fili? seriously?)

Indeed. Hollywood movies and their obsession with forcing romantic love subplots where they're simply uncalled for.

And introducing a character not created by Tolkien is a bit... well, it's my personal opinion, but it's the kind of work no one should be putting characters in it that weren't conceived or created by the author.

edited 18th Nov '14 7:05:31 AM by Quag15

I mean, it's sort of fair: Lord of the Rings had several women characters, one Action Girl from canon, one who got upgraded to that status. The Hobbit had no single named woman. So Tauriel's existence is almost welcome, giving her a dose of beard fever, however...

Final song official music video

Unless they decide to do a Silmarillion trilogy, which I severely doubt XD

But yeah, it kind of hits home when you realize that this is probably going to be the last LOTR movie ever. Yes, there are other books, but the timeframes on those are so wide apart and they're essentially just history books constructed as a narrative that they'd not only be super long, but also probably really boring.