Glee

Don't forget Kitty who can pick on Marley for being poor and her mother for being big.

Also I find it funny how people still think Finn needs to be punished after he's lost his father and his girlfriend(s) and his future.

And Santana's slapped him, so he just needs more and more, don't he.

edited 10th Nov '12 11:01:39 AM by Keybreak

Alrighty, watched clip. Huh. Seriously? His outing of Santana was way worse than that.

So yeah. Meh.

edited 10th Nov '12 12:31:46 PM by Pannic

My response to that is: One problem with the fandom is that since there are characters as bad as Santana and Sue, a lot of people use that to minimize it when a less mean character is being homophobic/ableist/whathaveyou.

Kitty's not supposed to be sympathetic, though.

edited 10th Nov '12 11:31:36 PM by Haldo

But...Finn didn't out Santana though! Someone else heard him say it. He was a good guy, he showed what he could do (and why what she did was so harmful) and backed off.

In that case, yeah Finn wasn't the one to leak it to the news, but he should know full and well how homophobic his school was. His step brother switched schools and even he was getting bullied and accused of being gay. That was a massive Idiot Ball the writers made him hold.

Idiot Ball yes. There is a difference between doing something out of stupidity, and apologizing and realizing the extent of your actions, and doing something and not seeing the error of your ways.

He saw the error of his ways, but he did out her, even if it was unintentional. He knew everyone in the hallway would hear it, and, as evidenced by 1) the fact that Santana later had to come out to her cheerleading squad and 2) the fact she got harassment for her sexuality after the incident (which she did not previously receive), his claim that "the whole school already knows it" is false. He did out her.

I've since forgiven him, because he made up for it, but what he did there was really not okay.

edited 11th Nov '12 8:40:37 AM by Haldo

He knew everyone in the hallway would hear it? How do you know that? We've seen plenty of "private" conversations happen in the hallway with no issues.

He waited for her to walk away several feet before he called out, "Hey, Satana!" Also, Rory could clearly hear what was going on and several people starred as they passed by.

I think the silence was a bit more of an "alright, aaaaaand snapping" moment than deliberately waiting for distance. Delayed reaction and all that. It happens.

Even if it were that, if he didn't want other people to hear it, he wouldn't have said it at that distance.

Thats a good point made about Santana and Sue, they've done and said a lot of horrible things to just about everybody on this show, even if that's mainly for humor, then the second anyone tries to get back at them because they're sick of their shit it's made to look like they're in the wrong.

This is coming from someone who likes Santana and Sue way more than Finn, by the way.

Two wrongs never make a right.

And yet no one talks about how Santana did anything unforgiveable, or Brittany, or Sue, or anyone else.

I beg to differ, there are plenty of people who talk about those things.

They don't get hate to that extent. Finn hate is a pretty popular thing. Everyone gets hate, but not to that level.

That and the show itself never makes a point of showing Sue and Santana being in the wrong for majority of their bullying. It gets Played for Laughs.

Since the outing of Santana is the current discussion I'd like to bring up that she busted Rory's nose the scene before Finn outed her. Two wrongs don't make a right but guess which one was actually followed up on and got resolution and which one got swept under the rug.

edited 13th Nov '12 9:13:30 AM by Lionheart0

I wasn't talking about the writers, I was talking about the fandom.

And, the reason why people don't go on at length about Santana's bullying in that episode or when Santana threw a dodge-ball up in Rory's face is because those things were morally unambiguous. On the other hand, there actually people who defend Finn for outing Santana.

I really don't get why so many Finn fans have such a hard time admitting that that was wrong of him. Really wrong. Santana is my favorite character, and I readily admit that she has done a host of horrible things in her past. If can admit that my favorite character has done unjust things, so can Finn fans, dammit.

And that was why I brought this up in the first place. Because some people are too stubborn to admit that what Finn did just wasn't right.

edited 13th Nov '12 12:27:39 PM by Haldo

Because in fiction, people like to see comeuppance. Even if it's not ethical.

Glee puts itself in a difficult position by trying to deliver the aesops it wants, but ignoring others. Like for instance how a lot of characters are jerks and get away with it, like Sue, Santana, Sebastian...and forms of justice delivered onto them are either sparse or "going too far" (true or false, but there's the point).

No, what Finn did probably wasn't right. But a lot of the other characters get away with things. I'd guess for either being funnier, or more attractive...

Oh really? Because just a few posts earlier, you were going on about how it was a-okay for Finn to out Santana. It doesn't matter what she did, that was still not justified.

edited 13th Nov '12 12:37:16 PM by Haldo

I was going on about how I would do what Finn did and how I subjectively thought she deserved it. But I also said that "One shouldn't use such a thing as a weapon."

Course not. It was a bad thing.

But sometimes one can sympathize with the bad things characters do...

Well, as long as you admit that it wasn't okay, I think we're good here.

Eh, well Lauren already threw Santana against the wall and the lockers and along the floor, so that's probably some compensation. ;p

Fiction Isn't Fair anyway—Sebastian barely got any punishment for almost blinding Blaine, except losing...Sectionals was it? Or Regionals. But I just kinda rooted for him cause I thought he was hot.

The evility of it all. I like most characters, Santana, Sebastian, Finn...but sometimes I just like other things to happen to them.

Okay then.

There are some other Finn fans who actually think it was just of Finn to out Santana. Now that pisses me off.

Maybe they meant cosmically just, not morally or ethically.