Bakemonogatari

That spelling is about right, though the y is kind of unnecessary.

Watching Nekomonogatari Kuro again and wow Araragi comes off as such a huge dick during his final confrontation with Hanekawa. I totally forgot about his speech.

Man, Sodachi's past is quite a case of Poor Communication Kills. I'm still undecided between whether Araragi is an idiot for not picking up on things (admittedly, more forgiveable at such a young age) or whether Oikura should have been a little less subtle (a difficult task for a child in a broken family though).

Ougi's "stereotypical manga plot" version of Oikura is hilarious though.

On a minor point, the clock ran anticlockwise when Ougi gave Araragi his time limit to solve the case. Is it just meant to represent a backwards countdown, or is it another little quirk related to Ougi? (In the first opening, the clock she clings on to is mirrored.)

Yotsugi as the Mathematics Fairy - oh no, my sides. (Euler's identity on her cheek is a nice touch.)

That endcard...Shinobu's real happy there.

The best part was Ougi's near-monotonous reading of the manga lines.

edited 18th Oct '15 4:23:28 PM by HanabiraKage

Ah, yes. Ougi, never change.

( I think that at this point I feel Araragi and Sodachi's situation wasn't exactly anyone's fault, in the end. It was just a terrible set of circumstances.)

I have to say, I felt Sodachi was violating her own ethics there. She should have taken responsibility in some way for her situation instead of hoping for a stranger to notice it.

"Hmm, let's see... take responsiblity for my own life or blame you? Dingdingdingdingding! Blame you wins hands down!"

Her grudge really isn't rational, but she wasn't a rational human being when she needed his help and I seriously doubt she is now either.

I feel like we shouldn't really be trusting Ougi to know what she's talking about. I don't like Hanekawa but she was right when she said that there's a flaw in Ougi's explanation: Araragi tends to keep his parent's job a secret so how would Oikura know that his parents are police officers?

edited 19th Oct '15 11:47:33 AM by Chariot

I don't think Ougi's wrong or lying, I think she's probably more likely to be twisting things or somehow responsible for this.

It's one of those paradoxes of writing that Nisio Isin makes characters that are both idealised and given clear mindsets, and heavily flawed and irrational. Like a painter being both beautifying and true to life.

She's almost certainly giving an incomplete version of events, though the jury is out whether that's due to malice or ignorance.

She's also, separately, being very manipulative about this. Given her implied past/future MO, it seems like that she's hoping to plant bad advice in Araragi's head so he ruins any chance he had at reconciling with Sodachi.

I don't see anything hypocritical about it. She's not saying "you're responsible for yourself" or anything. If fact, it's the opposite. Her philosophy seems to be that "every person is merely the sum of the people supporting them" and she only hates Araragi because he isn't acknowledging her as someone who supported him. Assuming Ougi's theory is correct, they were supposed to have a relationship of mutual aid, which is perfectly in line with everything she's said, and it's only Araragi's failure to pay her back that creates the issue.

Notice of course that this entire philosophy is direct contradiction with Oshino's old "in the end, only you can help yourself" thing which the show seems much more interested in buying into. Specifically, Ougi and Oikura tag-teaming to make Araragi regret failing to help someone is just poking at his underlying problem of trying to help people too much. Ougi is trying to unteach the lesson he's been on the verge of learning for the entire series. Coming on the tail of Koimonogatari and Tsukimonogatari, this is particularly meaningful.

edited 20th Oct '15 12:17:50 AM by Clarste

The difference between philosophies is directly brought up by Senjougahara. Oikura tutored Araragi because she wanted something from him in return, despite her protests to the contrary. Senjougahara tutors him because she feels that Araragi doing well benefits her as well, so she expects nothing from Araragi in return.

I find it hard to be too sympathetic to Oikura; I have no problem with the notion of her essentially buying one service with another. What she did, however, was to demand that he not do something (request/disseminate information) and then hold a grudge when he did like she told him. That's her fault.

I didn't mean to imply that you should find her sympathetic, I just wanted to clarify that she's not a hypocrite because nothing she does contradicts her stated philosophy.

I find her reasonably sympathetic. She's completely wrong to hold a grudge, but that doesn't mean she wasn't living in abusive family that eventually shattered around her. Understanding someone's problems isn't the same as agreeing with their actions.

edited 21st Oct '15 12:18:49 AM by Arha

So what's the best order to watch this series? I finished the first season last week, but there's so many different, totally-helpfully-labelled sequels/prequels/sidequels that I have no idea how to proceed without ending up completely lost.

Bake > Nise > Neko (Kuro) > Second Season > Hana > Tsuki > Owari in that order. There's also the Kizu movie trilogy but that isn't out yet.

Outside of the first season and the current one, Nise & 2nd should be the most relevant.

edited 21st Oct '15 3:39:33 PM by Demonfly

There's the complication that the series, whether animated or written, jumps back and forth in time. I wouldn't be too worried about spoilers, but it's important to get to know the cast before they start popping in and out. So start with Bake, then Nise, which introduces the main lot. The logical follow-up is second season, but you can go about more freely with the single stories like Hana.

Just watch them in release order. It's not complicated. Every season assumes you've seen the previous season.

I didn't know the release order, which is why I asked.

Well, this'll take a while to catch up on. Really should've looked into it sooner.

Considering how much Ougi lies, somehow I doubt that her job is really punishing liars.

Hanekawa♥

Getting the impression that Ougi is a kaii herself

I thought that that's been fairly obvious for quite a while. That's the deal with the other girl with the Oshino name, after all.

Maybe? The darkness that was after Shinobu and Hachikuji is technically not an oddity. I don't think she's the same thing since she behaves like the opposite of it, but she could be the same kind of thing.