Does religion do more harm or good?

That's an oversimplified version that, by virtue of the simplification, comes off as absurd. Also, it's off topic.

^^^^^^

One thing I find interesting is the reaction to the reaction to such stories. If we look at them out of the source material, the tropes themselves are horrific. They're just really ugly. And yet people try to justify them when they are inside of the religion they believe in as a whole.

Then at the same time, they try to deny that there's any possibility of a negative moral message being transmitted by such stories, while maintaining that the stories have power in and of themselves. It's extremely conflicted, flittering like the wings of a hummingbird.

Either these stories have power and as such religions should be much more careful about the content of them, or they don't and as such religions should really stop trying to be the "moral guardians"

I forgot the quote, but isn't it kind of pointless to judge someone from over a thousand years ago?

Is it? I would think whether or not atheism is a belief system or not is relevant to the merits of religion, but whatever.

And I think it's harsh to criticize me for both going off-topic and simplifying my off-topic point.

edited 10th Jan '11 11:28:26 AM by Ultrayellow

Whether atheism is a belief system is totally irrelevant, unless you're using the point to suggest that atheism is a religion.

And if you're going to say that it is, then say that, so that I can refute the point directly.

In the loosest possible sense [1] SCIENCE, as currently understood, is a religion. If we take that at face value, however, it ceases to be a topic about mythology, culture, and the Good Book and is reduced to "beliefs about how the world works." So, is the belief that if I add a spark to lighter fluid, it creates flames doing more harm or good.

At least in the case of science, I would argue that we're better off. But let's be honest: the context is religion outside of science. Why does science get to be treated differently? You tell me. But I somehow doubt you're interested in abandoning it.

edited 10th Jan '11 11:33:13 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

Well, if you want to consider the net good of religion, you have to consider the alternatives. At no point did I say or plan to say atheism was a religion.

But really, I accepted that that was off-topic, there's no need to belabor the point.

edited 10th Jan '11 12:19:42 PM by Ultrayellow

Right, well, in the sense of religion as "beliefs about how the universe is" the only alternative is to not have any beliefs at all.

Which is the same thing as saying "an inability to make decisions based on information."

Obviously, in this most unspecific version of the term religion, religion has net good-the ability to make informed decisions is a good thing.

So, I would suggest that religion-as actually being discussed-means something more limited.

The alternative, believing in the stuff that can actually believed in, as in belief as expectation of stuff happening, I can only see it as good points. And no, the Universe doesn't have a reason to exist. Why should it? Really, why should the universe have a reason to exist? Why should you have a reason to exist? Either an objective or a cause or whatever? And yes, reductionism leads to an infinite cascade of questions, and yes, an uncaused cause is absurd. Still, with Science, you strive to know all that is legitimately knowable and verifiable about the universe. The more science you know, the more religion seems useless or even counterproductive.

I am tired and incoherent. But I think religion gets in the way of people knowing what they need to know in order to achieve goals, and in order to even choose worthy goals to achieve. It gets in the way of people's happiness. Not happiness as "contentment". Happiness as fun.

So is that off-topic too, Tomu?

Causality is a crapshoot to begin with. The entire notion is based on an imprecise understanding of Time and Space to begin with.

I thought causality was a postulate in order to make sense of the universe?

I know I can't make sense of Time Travel...