A Biblical Exegesis

That makes sense. Is that the usual accepted interpretation?

I have never heard of that before...

No, it's just a heuristic I use.

Either that or the ancients didn't have carbon dating.

Wait, what's the problem with people living much longer before Noah? (That's where it ends, right? My knowledge of the OT before Abraham is even shoddier.)

Some people use it as an argument for vegetarianism.

How so?

Because God gives the green light for meat post-Flood.

That rivals "I dunno, I just do" for the stupidest reason for vegetarianism that I've ever heard.

Then again, the whole "forty days and forty nights" means "a long time", I think.

Ugh, all this translation shit. The Muslims know how to maintain the meaning of a holy text. Y'all could learn a lesson from them. BRING BACK ANCIENT HEBREW

A few notes:

• My preferred version (NLV) translates Jubal to be the first musician / inventor of the harp and flute. But the idiom still works; he's the granddaddy of all flautists and harpists.
• It's generally thought that Cain's wife was in fact a daughter of Adam+Eve. Not as bad as it sounds, if Adam and Eve were diverse enough genetically; so far there's been no prohibition against incest.
• There is more than one Lamech here; probably you noticed, just wanted to keep it clear.
• In the Enoch -> Lamech genealogy (and some others), it can be translated such that some intervening generations may be skipped ("was the father of" may mean "was the ancestor of"). In the genealogy giving ages, you probably can't do that.

What is NLV? That Other Wiki's page has no translation listed in the disambiguation.

"New Lutheran Version"?

edited 6th Jan '10 6:31:08 PM by Tzetze

New Living Version.

This?

Blrg, formal equivalence. Not my favorite. But what do I know.

Interesting points, Tangent.

And yes, sorry, I didn't make it clear that there are two Lamechs, several generations apart and with different ancestors. Noah is not descended from Cain.

Well, he could be, there's just no highlighted relation.

@Tzetze: The NLV does trend towards dynamic equivalence where it affects readability. I need to look up which edition I have, though. It's not the 2007, I know.

Jabal's brother, Jubal, is "the ancestor of all musicians who play the harp and the flute". I don't see how this statement can possibly make literal sense.

In-law of Noah something something something removed? But yeah, it's probably a translation thing or done in a metaphorical sense.

Also, I find your reactions to the stated ages of the early people humorous, in a good way.

It was hyperbole, my point still stands that when you follow a book to your soul (something that, as you pointed out, atheists and hindus dont) than any discrepances are an instant BSOD toyour entire existance. And Tzetze, stop being an ass. If you want to attack my ideas you can debate me but don't out and out say I'm an idiot. It's disrespecful and makes you look like a troll.

edited 7th Jan '10 2:38:07 PM by Ronin

That assumes you're as literalist as they come. Which most aren't.

I'm not really sure what you mean.

And I apologize for calling you an idiot.

edited 7th Jan '10 3:25:52 PM by Tzetze

Thanks man, it's cool. I;m saying that when you deal with matters of cosmic importance, metaphors and the like are real shaky ground.

On Cain marrying: I once heard a theory that the creation of Man was really only supposed to be for the Chosen people, or the Hebrew. I don't know how it holds up or any support for it. Just something I heard that I thought was interesting.

I've neglected this again, and I'm sorry. Blame it on a crisis of not-faith or something like that.

So, Genesis 6. "Human Wickedness", tsk tsk.

The human race has now spread all over the world, somehow. Personally, I'm taking this as support for my theory that Adam and Eve's family tree are not the only human beings, although it needn't mean that, I dare say.

Some of the heavenly beings (angels? A footnote suggests that this passage may also be "sons of the gods" or "sons of God", neither of which fits with accepted Christian cosmology) take beautiful young human women, presumably for the purpose of marriage, companionship and/or shagging.

The Lord declares that humans, being mortal, are not allowed to live forever and from now on shall live for no longer than 120 years. I guess those long ages really were meant literally, then.

In these days, and later, there are giants, who will later be remembered as great heroes of old. These are the descendants of the heavenly beings.

The Lord sees how evil the thoughts of the humans are, and regrets making them. He declares that He is even sorry that He made the animals and the birds, and that He will wipe them all out. However, He is pleased with Noah.

Now we have "Noah", the story of Noah. Noah, as we know, has three sons: Shem, Ham and Japeth. Noah is a man without faults, the only good man of his day, and lives in fellowship with God.

The rest of humanity, however, is violent and evil in God's sight. He informs Noah that He is going to kill the lot of them to put an end to their violence. He tells Noah to construct a boat from timber and coat it with tar. He provides Noah with various specifications: it is to be 133 metres long, 22 wide and 13 high. It is to have a roof (or a window, says the footnote - confusing) which is to be 44 centimetres from the sides. It is also to have three decks and a door.

God tells Noah that He will send a flood to destroy all living beings, but that He will make a covenant with Noah. On God's command, Noah takes onto the boat his wife, his sons, their wives, and a male and female of every kind of animal and bird, as well as sufficient food for all of them. End chapter.

When I was younger, this used to be one of my favourite Bible stories because of all the animals. Nowadays, the genocide strikes me as horrific, although clearly these people were violent and canonically deserved what they got.

There's some interesting things here. For starters, Noah being "without fault" seems to contradict later christian theology concerning the depravity of mankind.

... The meters thing was a unit conversion.