World Of Warcraft

I think Sylvanas is a /much/ worse threat than Garrosh.

Regarding Garrosh, remember that Character Development works both ways. World Of Warcraft is one of those universes where the slippery slope is always waiting, ready to be jumped off of. And I have no doubt that, given the current setup, Garrosh's descent into madness will turn out to be related to the Sha.

Regarding Sylvanas, that particular situation is definitely going to erupt at some point, but it may take another Wrathgate style event for the Horde and Alliance to recognize it.

Most likely to do with the seventh and final Sha, who hasn't been identified yet. My money's on it being something like the Sha of Pride or such, given Garrosh's ego.

I think that the key to Sylvanas right now is that, as long as she continues to act in the best interest of the Forsaken (which, by extension is for the Horde) she's going to be fine, but at the same time while I can see her doing something outside the Forsaken's interest for self preservation I can't see her doing something so bad that it will push her into Loot Pinate territory.

See, I don't think Blizzard want's to replace Sylvanas as leader of the Forsaken (mostly because there is not a single person readily visible that could replace her) but rather want to push the Forsaken more and more towards Black-and-Grey Morality from there already pretty grey standing. Token Evil Teammate the race as it where.

Deathstalker Commander Belmont could. He's pretty much her second-in-command.

>The system is SUPPOSED to keep you hit exactly the same after gear scalling but surprise surprise there are issues, one that really how the fuck could they not see? the system keeps your Hit values right, but ONLY the hit on the gear. Specs with a Spi-Hit conversion get boned becuase it scales down their spirit without adjusting for their hit, and if you reforged INTO hit, when the base stat on your gear you reforged gets lowerd so to does tha mount of hit you get from the reforging.

Hmm, you know, that bug logic sounds like if you'd have excessive hit on gear and reforge out of it, it won't reduce the reforged stat amount O_o

>Deathstalker Commander Belmont could. He's pretty much her second-in-command.

Who?
(Guess what percentage of players would have that reaction?)

edited 19th Oct '12 9:14:14 AM by Adannor

Exactly. The new leader of the Forsaken has to have a name sufficient clout and make enough sense in story to keep players from freaking out endlessly about the change.

I can't recall if I've ever heard of this Deathstalker Commander guy, but his name sounds like a silly Castlevania reference. Not the kind of character they'd ever consider promoting to a faction leader. They're far more likely to come up with a completely new character if they wanted to do something like that.

I suppose there's an outside chance that Sylvanas could be redeemed rather than replaced. The problem with the Forsaken is that, story wise, they have no real reason to continue existing as a race now that the Lich King is dead, so they have to make up a reason (In-Universe, I mean). This requires acts that are profoundly amoral to the other races. Even if Sylvanas gets booted, her replacement would have to deal with the same exact issues.

But it's up to Blizzard how to resolve this, and when. They may feel that the storyline of Pandaria takes precedence.

What is going to be interesting, though, is how the Horde deals with the Succession Crisis after Garrosh is dealt with (or once his decline becomes too obvious to ignore). I have a feeling that if there's any time for Sylvanas to make a play, it would be then.

I got a ton of spoilers from Wowhead's look at the 5.1 faction quests.

Horde are killing off the Mogu in order to harness there power.

You know the bell whose rings can cause chaos I mentioned earlier and the fact that someone stole it. Well, if you're Horde then you steal it.

Garrosh seems to be pushing the Blood Elves to research a Mogu artifact.

Garrosh has also had the experimenting with the Sha on Horde soldiers, hoping it can strengthen them. Baine is not to happy about this.

Vol'jin has been seriously wounded by some poison and has asked you to go and find Thrall. You escort Thrall to the Echo Isles and find that Garrosh has sent Kor'kronn to make sure there will be no troll uprising.

Yeah, the shit is hitting the fan big time.

edited 19th Oct '12 11:42:45 AM by tclittle

*urge to make a Horde char to see all dat plotz rising*

I just love how Blizzard has finally accepted that, yes, Garrosh is a psychopath, and their attempts to glorify him in Cataclysm was a bad, bad idea.

Oh good. Now I have motivation to level my horde panda shaman to 90 just to see Garrosh fall apart

Levelling from 1 to 90 while taking care to visit all the Garrosh's points along the way would be interesting indeed.

Though my char of choice would be a BE warlock XD

edited 19th Oct '12 12:10:26 PM by Adannor

They did leave the door open for him to develop a stronger moral sense (see: Stonetalon Mountains), but they've given up on that it seems.

Regarding Sylvanas, the only character I can think of who is possibly in a position to replace her would be Koltira Deathweaver. (It would also make a nice parallel to the Lich King, in that someone they held prisoner becomes their successor.)

I think Kolitra has to many neutral leaning to lead a group like the Forsaken effectively. What a lot of people don't seem to get is that....as far as it goes, Sylvanas reflects the Forsaken general mind set pretty well.

With a Garrosh trainwreck we might finally be able to see the true character of hardcore Horde players. Will they follow him all the way down the sink or will they roast Blizzard for ruining the story (more than they usually do, at any rate) and quite en masse?

Any chance of Varian getting derailed as well?

From what I've seen so far on the Alliance side, it appears that they are trying to downplay Varian's Knight Templar tendencies towards the Horde. He still hates them, but his focus in the Pandaria intro is on rescuing his son, not killing Orcs. That said, there are other members of the Alliance who are only too pleased to fill in the evil role and order atrocities.

I find it intriguing, however, that Garrosh is deliberately cultivating the Sha. It seems that he has learned nothing from what happened to the Orcs on Draenor. But more importantly, that it's the Horde doing this makes it look like Blizzard is intentionally reframing them as the more evil side of the Alliance-Horde conflict, or at least setting them up to be forced to make a choice in the matter.

edited 19th Oct '12 2:27:43 PM by Fighteer

I think the white washing of Varain's extremism is the same as attempts to make Garrosh more reasonable: destined to fail and blow in Blizzard's face. I just wish once-good characters didn't have to hits for Varian's sake. (The whole upcoming bit with Tyrande makes me see red, as a player of Warcraft III)

I'm avoiding spoilers of 5.1, but I do hope they don't try to play Tyrande off as a villain. Varian needs to be responsible for his own actions. For a while in Wrath I was convinced he needed to drop dead along with Garrosh for the sake of Azeroth. Cataclysm downplayed the conflict to a certain degree. Now it's one of those things where we're kind of screwed if he doesn't come to his senses at least a little.

If you're avoiding spoilers, I will try to avoid talking about it, but no her being a villain is not the problem.

edited 19th Oct '12 2:51:13 PM by LMage

Well, part of the issue is that Garrosh and his forces, at this point, doesn't pose a major threat to Stormwind itself. (Being an ocean apart kind of does that.) On the other hand, the night elves feel the heat, and they'd probably be the first to fall if Garrosh really cuts loose, especially without Theramore there to make it a two-front war. So it's no surprise that Tyrande would be worried, more than any other Alliance leader.

If the night elves fall, Kalimdor belongs to the Horde. (No offense, Draenei fans, but they don't have a chance.)

Sadly, I'm sure the goat pope need only ask their pet naaru to help and their islands will be enveloped with a perfect divine shield. The night elves are utterly screwed, if Bliz even bothers to remember the draenei, they'll be fine since they're the second holiest creatures in existence. Remember, the night elves suck at religion and don't know their goddess is a holy wind chime, but Velen knows better.

edited 19th Oct '12 3:39:56 PM by Rotpar

As far as we know, however, Elune hasn't yet been revealed by Metzen to be anything other than one of the few real deities in the Warcraft-verse. Besides, a giant wind chime still offers more protection than a giant jell-o.

Also, the giant wind-chimes are merely instruments of the 'real Holy Light' by their own admission. Jury (read: Metzen) is still out on that one as well.

edited 19th Oct '12 3:50:52 PM by Recon5

I'm not sure I buy the "Elune is a Naruu" theories.

edited 19th Oct '12 3:51:43 PM by LMage