World's Cutest Direwolf
Also not part of most people's views on Abyssals: The Seven-Degreed Physician of Black Maladies being a stoner. Yet the first view of him in the new edition is him smoking a bowl while on break. I find this more amusing than I probably should, especially since such tastes are hardly surprising in a scion of a Great House.
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It's been ages since I last looked at the Abyssals book, but didn't he seem fairly uptight in his comic? Clearly it was a long time since his last hit and he was jonesing for another one.
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World's Cutest Direwolf
His chapter fiction in the 1e Abyssals book had him on the job as well. Man's been slaving away at his workshop for two editions, no wonder he needed a smoke break.
Sinful Saint
Guys. It's a new edition, a new corebook. Remember the 2ed Corebook? Remember how when the Manuals of Exalted Power came out they fleshed out and expanded upon concepts only hinted at within the corebook's pages?
Unless you think the 3ed corebook is going to be the only book, then yeah, how dare they not give us a complete write-up on Abyssals, Infernals, Dragon-blooded, Lunars, detailing every aspect of their selection, Exaltation, Charms, outlooks, Motivations, Urges, and give us rules to build any and all types of Exalted, mortals, Fair Folk, Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk, demons, ghosts, sentient warstriders, and the occasional really smart deer?
Frankly, if this is the only book, I'd be offended that it's only 949 pages.
I guess what I'm saying is, please don't be one of those people, otherwise we won't get any more books.
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
Wouldn't a really smart deer just be a regular deer with intelligence 4 or 5? Plus a few more skills, of course.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
So? The problems are in concepts and mechanics that are already there and aren't going away - playtesters have already pointed them all out and they're still here by the point of nearly finalised book.
edited 4th Feb '15 7:26:00 AM by Adannor
Sinful Saint
What, you mean the concept and mechanic that being able to build a fortress requires completely different training than being a jewelrymaker? As opposed to hitting things with other things, which is actually pretty universal in application?
It might have Charms, you don't know! No one's ever seen Deer Style Martial Arts, and who better to come up with it than Stag Who Refused To Be Dinner?
edited 4th Feb '15 9:33:35 AM by Frishman
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
It strikes me that it would actually make sense for the lunars to have created a bunch of martial arts styles suited to quadrupedal forms. Especially since they apparently can't use the normal ones in animal form at all due to being the wrong shape.
Yep. Because "hitting things with other things is actually pretty universal in application" is wrong.
The issue here it that if you're going for realism craft is the correct level of complexity. It's melee that's too simple.
At least some points of knowledge about fighting with one implement will transfer to another, anyway. Like "where getting hit damages the most", for example.
That's Brawl 
Also, all archery weapons use drastically different principles in working, and yet they are same skill as well.
Dancing, singing and playing a guitar are not crossaplicable, but here we have.
Skills being extremely broad is the main principle of the game. Dividing crafts goes against it, and it only serves to provide pointless roadblocks to actually being a crafter.
World's Cutest Direwolf
By the rules as given, being skilled with a rapier makes you better with a scythe, being skilled as a spinal surgeon makes you a better ear-nose-and-throat doctor, and being skilled with mathematics makes you a better historian, but being a master woodworker doesn't make you a better carpenter and being a master weaponsmith doesn't make you a better armorer. Those Craft subabilities come directly from the examples, I'm not pulling them from my fundament here.
Part of me keeps going "they did this shit in D&D and you never complained," but another part keeps responding "yeah but D&D also differentiated Profession and Knowledge and weapon proficiency, so it wasn't literally the only thing like that."
Full disclosure: My main char's a crafter so I'm probably not unbiased on this particular point.
One thing I do like about the new skill system is that your Linguistics skill is decoupled from the number of languages you know. You can be make-a-blood-ape-weep eloquent in one language or fumble-tongued in five. Also changed is that it's the ability you need a dot in to be literate, which I have no opinion on.
edited 4th Feb '15 10:42:31 AM by rikalous
Sinful Saint
No, I assure you, if you can hurt someone with a stick you have a basic understanding of how to hurt someone with a sword, a spear, an axe, or any other rigid implement that one might use in one or two hands. Having a three-dot specialty in "Stick," on the other hand, means you have special training in using the stick to both hurt others and defend yourself. If you can play a guitar you at least have an understanding of music and rhythm and can probably read sheet music. Having a three-dot specialty in "Guitar" means you can jam like Eddie Van Halen. If you can build a boat out of wood, however, blacksmithing is still a completely foreign art to you. There is literally no commonality between the two other than "you use your hands."
Granted, I would actually like to see a differentiation between Medicine and Lore as well as rikalous suggested. It's just saying there's no commonality between melee weapons and ALL THE COMMONALITY between craft professions that's pushing my buttons, as I'm both a crafter and a fencer.
edited 4th Feb '15 10:44:49 AM by Frishman
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
World's Cutest Direwolf
The current situation, where the rules say there is ALL THE COMMONALITY between weapons and no commonality between crafts, does not strike me as an improvement.
Incidentally, there's no such thing as a "three-dot Specialty" anymore. There are just Specialties, which give you one dot.
Sinful Saint
You can take the same Specialty three times, though...unless I missed that in an Errata somewhere.
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
World's Cutest Direwolf
I don't think 3e's gotten errata just yet. And since there's a thing specifying that only one of your Specialties can apply to a given roll, picking up three of the same seems like it would be singularly pointless.
You wouldn't be applying different specialities in that case. You'd be applying the same one multiple times.
Sinful Saint
Thank you, Elfive. And for cheaper than getting the higher Ability Rating at that, with less in-game time dedicated to learn it.
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
World's Cutest Direwolf
But...reading the new rules, I don't see why you'd expect to be able to do that any more than apply your relevant Ability twice. As far as I can tell, Attribute + Ability + Specialty max out at eleven now.
Sinful Saint
I don't have access to the new rules as I refuse to go anywhere near 4chan. Can you copy/paste the relevant spot so we can look at it? Cause that would be a major problem in the new system.
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
World's Cutest Direwolf
Abilities represent broad knowledge of a given field, but few people go through life without acquiring unique talents and special interests. In Exalted, these areas of expertise are referred to as Specialties, and come into play when your character has a chance to benefit from his special talent. Each Specialty is attached to a specific Ability. When you make a roll with an Ability with an associated Specialty, you can add one die to that roll—if you can justify why your character’s training gives him an edge.
Specialties can be as broad or narrow as you like, but there must be notable situations where they can’t apply. Melee (Swords) is perfectly acceptable, but Melee (While Armed) or (While Breathing) are not. Sure, your character can try and keep fighting while asphyxiating, or literally have his breath stolen by a Sidereal attacker, but those are edge cases. The Storyteller has the final say in whether or not a Specialty is acceptable.
Only one Specialty can apply to a single roll, even if your character has more than one that could be useful—if your character is trying to carve an insult into his foe’s flesh and has both Melee (Swords) and Melee (Humiliate Opponents), he could apply one or the other, but not both.
You can buy as many Specialties for your character as you want, but you can’t purchase Specialties for Abilities rated at zero dots.
edited 4th Feb '15 11:13:45 AM by rikalous
"No, I assure you, if you can hurt someone with a stick you have a basic understanding of how to hurt someone with a sword, a spear, an axe, or any other rigid implement that one might use in one or two hands."
By the same analogy, because I can nail two planks together and boil an egg, all crafts are the same still.
Sinful Saint
Hmm...well, if that's the case, house-rule the @#$% out of Craft because now it no longer makes any goddamn sense. Can you link me to the leaked rules? I'd like to take a better look at this.
Um...what? Where are you finding a common ground between "Take a hammer in one hand and a nail in the other, place the nail's pointy side normal against the top plank you wish to adjoin to the other plank, and bring the head of the hammer down onto the head of the nail repeatedly until the head of the nail becomes flush with the top of the plank" and "take a pot, fill it with water and put it over a heat source. Take an egg and place it in the pot. Wait for egg to boil"?
edited 4th Feb '15 11:25:30 AM by Frishman
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.
Nope. No links for you.
edited 4th Feb '15 11:22:21 AM by Adannor
I think it's safe to say that Falling Tears Poet wasn't exactly the defining image of 2e Abyssals for the majority of the fanbase.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.