Here are some important points missing in the reaseon to remove images list:
Not showing the trope
Misleading
Not an example
Hi
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Agreed. Also, I'd move all the "grounds for an instant pull" criteria to the top of the list and designate them as such.
Under NSFW, you have "and and act of improving the population". I'm also not comfortable with that phrase...would "gory violence" cover the same ground as well?
edited 9th May '11 3:46:03 AM by Willbyr
A pocketful of saudade.
When I think of "instant pull" I think of...
- NSFW
- Copyrighted/watermarked
- Duplicate
- Demotivators/macros
Everything else are more or less debatable.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Duplicate image is not a reason for instant pull. There is no real damage done by using pictures on two pages, as long as these show both tropes. And we need to discuss first wich page can keep the image.
But spoilers are an instand pull reason. I think it is safer to pull first and discuss then, whether it is really a spoiler, there is no damage done by having the page image free for a few days.
I see the Awesomeness.
I think that list would work better on the forum, since it's more of a guide to using Image Pickin'. We never did anything with that did we?
For the record: we're allowed to use copyrighted stuff if it's got the artists name on it afterward. Only the copyright [c] makes it look like we're claiming copyright, "[c] artist" is like a signature.
Fight smart, not fair.
I see the Awesomeness.
Should we start the Image Pickin' thread guidelines thingy?
Fight smart, not fair.
A pocketful of saudade.
As long as it's not too rigid or reads like a list of laws, I think.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
I thought that was what How To Pick A Good Image already is.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
A pocketful of saudade.
And I thought that's where we're going to put the guideline?
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Hi
The guidelines will probably have some of the material from How To Pick A Good Image in them, but are also the general policies that we use when we're conducting our business in IP, such as "don't pull a bad image right away" or "tag the page with the IP thread once the new pic is chosen" and other stuff like that. If I get time today/tonight, I'll try to put something together.
I'd much rather see the guidelines as a sticky here in IP, maybe with a bolded or all-caps title to get people's attention, but it could work well in Administrivia also.
edited 17th May '11 3:56:26 AM by Willbyr
A pocketful of saudade.
I could go with either. Or both.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
I see the Awesomeness.
My original plan was to make a set of guidelines for the IP forum, rather than specific image criteria. They intersect, particularly over things like "Hating the work is not grounds for starting an Image Pickin'" which we had happen.
Fight smart, not fair.
A pocketful of saudade.
Now that I think about it, How To Pick A Good Image should only be a part of the guideline, for how to replace or how to pull are rather different things. The package is better covered as a sticky thread since it's exclusively an Image Pickin' thing.
edited 17th May '11 9:21:42 PM by Catalogue
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
I see the Awesomeness.
So I thought of a few posts of how I would do this.
Welcome to Image Pickin'!
Since you're here, it's probable that you're curious as to what this sub forum is for. Well, it's purpose is two fold:
1) the removal of bad images
2) finding good, or better yet, great images
We'll cover some of the specifics in later posts, while this post will be the table of content and link to the individual posts.
[table of contents, to be edited in and linked to posts as necessary.]
When to make an Image Pickin'.
Bad images: If you find an image you think is bad at illustrating the trope/work, or falls into the instant pull criteria* , go ahead and create an Image Pickin'. The goal is to get some consensus on whether or not image is bad.
Proposing an image: If you think you've found a good image and would like some feedback, start an Image Pickin'. Whether you're not sure if the image is good enough to put on a blank page, or you don't know if it's good enough to unseat the current image, feedback and consensus with others is always good to have.
These two functions will almost always overlap, as any time a bad image is pulled,, a good one is searched for. Occasionally, a trope will be declared unpicturable, meaning that the conversing tropers think that the trope is so hard to picture that there's no point in leaving the thread open, and it's better to close it and leave a commented out tag.
Do not make an Image Pickin' because you hate the work, hate the character, want to pimp your favorite work, want something more iconic, or your favorite picture was not chosen in a previous Image Pickin'. Your thread will likely be locked and you may get a warning about being civil.
For more information on images themselves, see How To Pick A Good Image.
How to make a thread.
1) Do a search in the "search forum titles" field to make sure it's not already open, or go to the page to see if there's an Image Pickin' tab, if not continue.
2) Click the "create new conversation" button at the bottom of the page.
3) Enter the part that comes after "https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/" (but everything before the ? in a Ptitle, the p in Ptitle needs to be Capitalized), as a Wiki Word in the top line.Include the Name Space if it's not Main (Main will be added if you do not enter one). Enter a short reason why you think the current image is bad/why you think your image is better. This will put an "Image Pickin' tag" on the page, letting people know that an image has been proposed or the current image is being questioned.
4) Write an introduction to your Image Pickin'. If you think you've found a better image, present it in a link. If you think the current image is bad, present your reasoning.
When to pull an image.
If an image meets "instant pull" criteria, such as being NSFW or a major Spoiler, pull the picture, start an Image Pickin' and link the image in the OP with a warning. It should look like this: Previous NSFW image
◊ (done by putting the image url first and the text second in a Pot Hole).
Otherwise, it's best to start a non-crowner vote and list reasons why you think the image is bad enough to merit being pulled from the page. Once a vote of +3 (three people more in favor than against) and the vote stabilizes, pull the image (leaving an edit reason mentioning the Image Pickin' thread) and paste a copy in the Image Pickin' so people can see the previous picture without having to dig through the history.
Non-crowner votes: this is most likely to be the first vote in a thread, and generally comes up when deciding if an image is bad. Start one by posting something like "!!Motion to pull current image." followed by your reasoning so that it looks like this:
Motion to pull current image.
Reasons A, B, C.
If you see the above, you can either say you second the motion, third it, fourth it, or oppose it, depending on which you prefer, and why. Occasionally, many people will agree on an image, and this can be used in the same way to decide on an image. If the vote becomes divisive enough, start a Crowner vote.
Crowners: these are more of an official vote than the more impromptu "non-crowner" variety and generally tend to be done at the end of a thread. These have both a more rigid set up, and also include a tally that shows both total votes, but ratio of approval. They should be hooked to the thread, and will be at the bottom of the thread page under a drop down menu.
Vote up images you think will look good on the page, and vote down images you think would look bad. If there's a tie or something, you may wish to change a vote so the image you think is better will be chosen.
The normal "winner" of a crowner is the highest green* item and having a ratio above 2:1. Being in the red means no image will be chosen.
Creating crowners
- )Use the following url:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/ImagePickin/
[Insert Title Here]
and replace [Insert Title Here] with the page ID (the same one that you used to tag the page) and past it in your url and hit enter. Then follow the instructions, and paste a link to the crowner in the thread.
- ) ||holler at the mods, by clicking the ||
|| button and asking for a "crowner hook". This will attach the crowner to the page.
- ) populate the crowner with images from the thread, as links. Trying to load the image in the crowner will break the crowner. Do this by potholing the image url in a brief description of the image like this: fluffy chainsaw◊, add numbers if there are similar images (ie fluffy chainsaw 1, fluffy chainsaw 2 etc).
Suggesting Images
For the guidelines for choosing a good image to suggest, read How To Pick A Good Image.
When you suggest an image, you may wish to either upload it to the server (in the tools menu to your left on the main wiki), or simply link to it as a hyper link ([[imageurl name of image]]). If you just did a quick Google Image Search (as is common), feel free to just bracket the image urls, this will spit out a number instead of a normal Pothole.
Please don't just suggest a random character without providing a link. Naming a scene you think might work, but don't have immediate access to, is cool but just naming off an example doesn't do much good. Just saying "[Character Name] is a great example, let's use [him] since [he]'s a really iconic example!" will just get you links to How To Pick A Good Image and Just A Face And A Caption (probably Fan Myopia too) and no body will pay attention.
Finishing up.
When the Image Pickin' is done, it'll be time to put up the new picture (if there is one), pothole to the work (if nobody knows, bring it up in this thread) and "tagging" the page with a commented out notice that the image was chosen by an Image Pickin' thread. It will generally look something like this:
This tag is put there because several users were replacing good images with Just A Face And A Caption of their favorite works and is there to show that several people saw and approved this image.
Whew, that was a fun write.
edited 17th May '11 10:29:19 PM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.
I see the Awesomeness.
Does the || thingy for images not work in quoteblocks?
Fight smart, not fair.
Zzzzzzzzzz
No it doesn't.
You can also mention that yo can Holler to ask for a crowner blank to be hooked without having made it — the Mods have a widget that makes it easy to make and hook a blank crowner in one step. You need to include what type of Crowner you want. If you choose this route, the mod may or may not fill the crowner with the options suggested so far, depending on how generous they feel and how easy the options are to find. The longer the thread, the less likely that a mod will fill in the crowner for you.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
A pocketful of saudade.
I like it. Little things like "how to make a crowner" would be immensely helpful; it took me awhile to figure that out.
Questions:
Where do we put the usual practices/guidelines in IP, e.g. classical art gets free pass, etc.? Do we edit the How To Pick A Good Image? I thought the title is a bit restrictive as it doesn't cover pulling or replacing, but maybe it's nitpicky.
Is the 2:1 ratio for image picking a standard practice? I thought that was for renaming and/or single prop cases, and image picking, being a bit tighter, is more lax.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Zzzzzzzzzz
The 2:1 isn't graven in stone, but it's kind of hard to call less than 2/3 in favor much of a consensus. But past experience indicates that a really good page image doesn't have any problem hitting 2:1, unless there are several equally "really good" options.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I see the Awesomeness.
Things for the actual images should be on How To Pick A Good Image.
Also, would you like me to make this into a thread so you can sticky it or something? Do you think the whole shebang was a good idea?
edited 18th May '11 12:20:08 AM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.
A pocketful of saudade.
I don't know, I for one support it. "Introducing Image Pickin'" is empty, by the way. Was it originally meant as something like this?
I see, does this include the "common reasons for pulling" thing?
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
I see the Awesomeness.
I actually put "what makes a bad image" on the How To Pick A Good Image page under the "Things To Avoid" section. That's actually the first part I wrote cause I was so sick of "let's use [this character], he's such a great example!" and I decided to write the whole page rather than just make a bitch list of poor image arguments or throw my computer across the room.
I'll go copy pasta the posts into a thread. Sticky if you like.
Fight smart, not fair.
A pocketful of saudade.
I think the page's ordering can be improved, though. Maybe first we talk about the policy (no image is preferred over bad image), and then whether we pick an image as an initial one or a replacement, then what kind of images merit a pull/replacing, etc.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
I see the Awesomeness.
Whew.
Should I start IP Guidelines now?
Blast it, cursed ninjas.
edited 18th May '11 12:56:29 AM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.
Zzzzzzzzzz
^ And it's pinned. As a mod, I would ask that we try to keep that thread clean of other discussion, so that the important stuff doesn't get lost under posts asking "What about this page?" or "Why does it need a 2:1 ratio?"
Or I can just lock it, and unlock it for agreed-on additions.
edited 18th May '11 12:59:01 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
We do leave it, it's just a set of guidelines. We already have things like this @ How To Pick A Good Image.
That being said, it's actually not hard for commenters to state their reasons for pulling without.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.