When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

What reason would Shannon have to use padding though? Kanon was a later invention. Makes more sense to adapt to it. Plus, you could argue that part of the reason that Kanon was so weak is that 'his' breathing was restricted. That plus loose clothing could probably pull it off. Not like stories haven't done it before where the apparently flat girl who was pretending to be a boy was revealed to actually be pretty busty.

I figured the padding was after "creating" Kanon. I mean, even if it is natural, she can't have been that busty for many years. I assumed the current sprites are being used for convenience alone, and not as an indicator Shannon looked like that ever since she was 13.

I find the idea of Kanon being so weak because of too much bounding too amusing to dismiss, however. So, yeah, lets go with that. Personally, I prefer her to be a busty girl, anyway.

Danm, that is also a too amusing idea to just dismiss.

edited 18th Dec '11 2:36:39 AM by Heatth

"So if Battler just groped Shannon in Episode 1, the whole mystery would've been solved, huh?"

Nah, when battler and Shannon last met, it was noted that Shannon was growing breasts. So while she didn't have the figure of her sprite then, she wasn't flat. And add two or three more years of growth until Kanon shows up...

The metaphors burying Will's solutions to the murders are kind of annoying. I mean, I don't even remember most of those deaths. Though even then it's kind of funny how easy the solutions become with someone able to move around freely because they are considered dead. Rather like And Then There Were None, which is quite fitting.

edited 18th Dec '11 2:42:16 AM by Arha

Fair enough. I had forgotten that particular line.

So you have finished Yasu's tale. The main story is about to end, then. All left is the pleasant Tea Party.

Have you figured out the solutions? I think I could for most part, but EP4 remains as nebulous as ever for me.

PS:At the rate you will finish EP8 faster than me.

edited 18th Dec '11 2:49:44 AM by Heatth

To how people were murdered? I'm not really interested in that, but once you account for the idea that 'Kanon and Shannon aren't real/are the same person' the answers fall into place. I think I could figure them all out if I say down but really, as I said, not interested.

Though I assume Yasu somehow used some gold to bribe Rosa based on what Will said. After all, Yasu did tell Genji that if she ever needed some money, she'd ask him.

...That said, as for the actual cause of death, I'm going with 'small bombs.'

Edit: And yes, I'm on the Tea Party. I'll read Episode 8 tomorrow. Which will probably have a downer ending. Or at least what I'll consider one.

edited 18th Dec '11 2:55:10 AM by Arha

You guys do know that Episode 8 has two endings, right?

Episode 8 is pretty long, assuming that you take the time and solve everything presented to you.

edited 18th Dec '11 2:59:11 AM by LiberatedLiberater

Oh, right, I remember hearing about that. Okay, well, I'll almost certainly consider the mystery ending a downer. And since the only fantasy characters I think are actually real are the witches, I'm kind of confused as to what the fantasy ending would even entail.

The mechanic of the murder mostly become clear with Shkanon, yeah. But not only that. Who are the accomplices? Why would they help? Where they betrayed and how? Who knows about Shkanon and why did they kept quiet? These are all things to know that aren't clear. Also, at last in EP3 "they" are not the responsible for every death. How many they killed in the other episodes, then?

You said Rosa was bribed, but I don't think this is true for all Episodes. I guess it was what happened in EP2 (it wouldn't make sense otherwise), but I don't think it was the same for any of the other 3 (ignoring Chiru). In EP1, the ones to be bribed would be Eva and Hideyoshi, instead (Hideyoshi, in particular, must be an accomplice to stop George from seeing Shannon's body).

Do you know how it works? There is choices, but how many? Also, I've hear there are riddles in the middle, and that there is different consequences related to how many you solve. Do you know how it works?

What do you mean? I mean, do you think the witched are any more 'real' then, say, Ronove? Why? I think all characters there are all equally (un)real.

edited 18th Dec '11 3:14:08 AM by Heatth

Well, Ronove etc appear to be inventions of Yasu's to cope with loneliness. The witches seem to exist apart from that, or above them. So perhaps you could say that while Ronove is almost certiainly a fantasy, the witches are real. Though I guess the mystery ending would deny them as well. Inventions of that author that Auaurora is based on, presumably.

Both groups can be denied, but one group easier than the other.

Isn't Beatrice and invention as well? Or you aren't counting her?

My theory is that both 'planes' are true and influence each other. A 'character' someone "creates" in the 'real world' have always existed in the 'fantasy world', but just then are "summoned". So, Gaap is clearly a creation from Yasu's mind. However, she is also the 33rd of the 72 Great Demons. Same for Ronove. So every character in the fantasy side is both real and unreal at the same time.

Well, now you said that, however. I just noticed Bern and Lambda are notoriously unrelated to the real world of Umineko. Even Aurora is related, and her "existence" can be explained by real world logic. But Bern and Lambda are completely random existences. If I would chose someone from the fantasy world to be "more real" then the others, it would be these 2 alone.

(yeah, you could say Bern is tied to the 'real world' as she seems to be the made-up "witch" personality of Furude Rika, similar to how Beatrice is for Shannon. But even assuming Higurashi and Umineko happen in the same world, Rika still have no relation or whatsoever with Rokenjima, to explain Bern's presence)

@Heatth: I finished it already, lol

Okay, so here's how it goes: on the first part of the game, you'll be presented with a quiz game where you'll be asked riddles by each of the family members. Answering the questions correctly will unlock some scenes involving the family members in question.

Midway through, Bernkastel challenges you with a murder mystery that you have to solve. The question's pretty simple: who's the culprit?

Finally, there are two endings. One of them is a fairly obvious Bad End, the other one unlocks the Tea Party and the ????.

By the witches, I mean Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, yes.

^ Ah. I suppose given the setup with Yasu saying 'You don't solve the mystery, then it's really a fantasy' means the fantasy end is the bad ending.

edited 18th Dec '11 3:40:54 AM by Arha

I am a slow reader (not my native language, after all). I don't expect to finish it today at all. Or tomorrow. Maybe Tuesday or even Wednesday. Considering I still eager for more Dragon Age, it might take even longer, sadly (though I can't predict my own reading speed, as it greatly vary).

Anyway, which are the consequences for the "who's the culprit" question? is it what decide the ending? And how many options there is? Or you can chose any character?

The culprit game is interactive. You have to select which among the family members committed the crime that Bernkastel presents. It doesn't have any consequences for the ending; it's just there mostly for fun. Hell, you could just read through all the hints and then answer the puzzle.

You're given a binary choice near the end of the main story. Choose one and you get an ending. Simple as that. No flags or anything.

I have to say that the culprit game was the best part of the Episode. It was really fun to solve.

edited 18th Dec '11 3:52:19 AM by LiberatedLiberater

I think the early hints presented by my opponents are a bit too obvious and powerful gamebreakers. I suggest getting a piece of a paper or word document and try to figure out the kinks of the Purple Declaration system before getting the first hint, which to me is too big for a major clue.

edited 18th Dec '11 3:57:46 AM by Trollkastel

No. No sockpuppets.

Ah~ Bern, I think you went way too easy on them~! Still, I had so much fun~ with you this Episode~!

A binary choice, then? Good. When They Cry is not a game of multiple path, so such simplicity fits better.

Anyway, I have to say I am apprehensive with the direction the episode seems to be going. The talk between Battler and Ange make sense from her point of view... but not from the reader's. The reader POV have been Battler in the start, not Ange. This talk would make sense if we know what we "see" is what Ange sees, but this wasn't the case at all for [[=Ep1 through 3. And even after her introduction, there is no indication that what we see is her impressions from what happened. In fact, she have always be more in the dark then the readers.]] I hope there is something to prove me wrong, because so far it seem the story is pulling a twist out of its ass.

edited 18th Dec '11 4:01:15 AM by Heatth

Please do not be apprehensive just yet; drink some tea. It will all soon be revealed.

edited 18th Dec '11 4:13:18 AM by Trollkastel

Is it wrong that I found the scene of all the adults getting killed in the gold room almost hilarious?

It's a really stupid way to die, yeah.

I think I'll go write up a review for Umineko.

edited 18th Dec '11 4:18:01 AM by LiberatedLiberater

No. The sheer stupidity made me chuckle as well.

Speaking of stupid things that made me laugh, I almost lol'd at the bad ending to Episode 8.

For those who finished part one of episode 8 by the very least, did you feel awkward and scared when Kinzo became so friendly and happy?

It gives me shivers.

I personally think it should be renamed as the intellectual rapist ending.

edited 18th Dec '11 4:23:11 AM by Trollkastel