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TV Tropes Trading Card Game:

 76 Kyler Thatch, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:05:05 PM Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
literary masochist
Oh, before I shuffle off for a while, might I also suggest making the basic ruleset minimalistic? I mean, try to design the game so that there are as few rules as possible to start playing, and let the cards themselves do all the shiny special effects. I don't want to have to sit through a two and a half hour lecture discussing all the sliding scales and card types just to get introduced to the game.
And now it is your turn
Your turn to hear the stone, and then your turn to burn
 77 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:07:18 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
Yeah, I definitely agree with Kyler.

That's why I vetoed the scales.

Too confusing, not to mention limiting.
 78 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:08:51 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
Oh, a thought: Should we go try one of those online card games to get a feel and maybe some ideas?
TV Tropes #1 Anime Fan
I agree, Eio — that sounds sort of like a neat idea, but it'd be far too complex in practise to be fun.
Feedback Of Heteronormative Gender Stereotypes in Anime
 80 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:11:50 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Which sort of online card game? (Btw, in the middle of a post with a new ruleset idea)
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 81 Hikarino Kaze, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:13:07 PM from The Land of Maple Syrup
NOOOOO
Vetoed??? I thought that the Sliding Scale of Idealism versus Cynicism was still being used....

I had originally thought that some cards would say "Idealistic" on them and that some would say "Cynical", and the "Atmosphere" would be either Idealistic or Cynical depending on the cards in play, i.e. if there are more Idealistic cards in play, the atmosphere is Idealistic. This would affect some cards, for example, perhaps "Break the Cutie" would be more effective if the Atmosphere is Cynical, or against an Idealistic character.

Or is that too complex...?
-*whooooooosh* Nin nin! [1]
 82 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:13:22 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
Like Kongai or Chaotic. I see those ads all the time on here.

Damnit, post ninja'd AGAIN.

Stupid ninjas.

Well, for now it seems too complex to me. But perhaps later on we might find a way to fit it in. This is a work in progress.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:15:30 by Matrix

 83 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:14:05 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Probably too complex for general use. Of course, I'm the kind of person who would love playing with five different scales...
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Reply to Post # 81: That seems simple enough. Individual cards might say something like "Do X if the number of Cynical cards in play is greater than the number of Idealistic cards."

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:16:18 by Eio

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What?
Chaotic: Cards are placed in a triangle and move like pieces in some sort of chess.

 86 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:17:03 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
It would kinda be annoying to have to constantly keep track of the ever-fluctuating ratios of cards. On the other hand, an actual sliding scale may be a bit much.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 87 Tangent 128, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:19:25 PM from Virginia Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
dy/dx
Shows me to leave a post half-composed... whole page's gone by since I left.

One idea of mine, slightly modded:
  • Attack-type stuff, on an empty field, deals damage directly to the player. The player has 0 hp- any attack that is not countered causes you to lose.
  • As such, when you get attacked for X damage, then on your turn you have to supply X Plot Points in order to counter the attack.
  • Plot Points can be generated by various means.
    • Certain Trope cards might directly give you PP, if your field matches some condition.
    • Certain Character abilities could generate PP.
    • HOWEVER! A good story does not get bogged down in repetition, so Characters, etc. with such abilities can only use their ability once. With exceptions, naturally.
  • Discarding cards from your deck is a reliable, if inefficient, way to generate PP in an emergency. Such cards are Deader than Dead, however.
  • Most Characters can block damage to the player in some way. Not sure of details yet.

As for Sliding Scales, let's take the easy route and save them for an expansion set. tongue

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:21:05 by Tangent128

Conversation is a contact sport.
Reply to post # 79: You think so? I rather like the idea of not paying for cards you play until they are defeated. Thus, a skilled player could win with only a few cards left, and an overconfident player could abruptly lose in a cascade of forced redemptions.
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 89 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:26:14 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
How are we going to reward people who focus on controlling and completing the story instead of wiping out the enemy tropers or idea pool (my new name for the deck)?

One idea is to use plot cards. These cards would have a list of objectives on one side and a list of results on the other. Each player would start with two in play. Whenever the objectives are satisfied, the card gets flipped and the results are applied (these results may be ongoing). A new objective card is drawn (from a small side deck) to replace the old one, and play continues. Once any player completes five objectives (or more for multiplayer), they win. Among other things, flipping a plot card could reward plot points and provide permanent effects in order to give players an incentive to complete the objectives even if they aren't going for that victory condition.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 90 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:27:53 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
Tangent has some good ideas there.

I still prefer having Troper Cards as your lifeline instead of having attacking the player as a mechanic.

EDIT: Ninja'd Again: I like your Plot Card idea. It's reminiscent of Prize cards in Pokemon (I never used that mechanic, actually).

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:30:38 by Matrix

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I like that idea. Essentially you could win the game by completing your plot chain before the other player does, or the other player wipes you out!
Feedback Of Heteronormative Gender Stereotypes in Anime
What?
Once again down all the Troper cards to win the match.

Like in that Danish card game.

 93 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:39:49 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
As I said before I like Ironeye's idea, but I don't think they should be Plot Cards. I would call them Objective Cards. Plot Cards would be like multi-turn spells as I elaborated earlier, which would obviously be what you have to use to complete your objectives.

But now a question: Would objective cards be cards you can get, or player-made, based on their deck?
 94 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 9:45:06 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Making the cards player-made is a recipe for disaster unless we have a definite form of oversight (like with the Troper cards). Perhaps they could be general enough that we can just make a (large) standardized set. We could even based them around ending tropes, or something like that. (Of course, we'd have to change the name.) In that case, the players would be trying to ensure that the story ends their way...

I'm trying to find a mechanic that we can use to still force an opponent to burn cards without players having to attack. After all, both sides are controlling pieces within the same story.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 95 Tangent 128, Thu, 12th Feb '09 10:18:58 PM from Virginia Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
dy/dx
Well, my mechanic forces PP to be burned every turn (unless your opponent gives you a reprieve), and recommends not allowing continuous PP generators to create an equilibrium. Thus, if a player runs out of tricks they have to burn cards until they run out and die or get something useful.

I assume we're going to use the standard "draw one at the start of turn" rule? Or else, maybe drawing a card costs 1 PP?
Conversation is a contact sport.
What?
Do we even have an idea of what we have so far?

 97 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 10:25:49 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
I assume we're going with "Draw 1 per turn".

Actually, what I meant was that I was trying to find away around the Attack mechanic in the first place. It doesn't really fit the theme of the game.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 98 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 10:29:23 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
I'm thinking Ironeye's fusion of my Troper Card idea with Eio's Plot Points idea (that the Troper Cards have PP for life, which is taken away from the Troper when something summoned is destroyed). I'm also thinking of taking away the Tropers' ability to attack, and also be able to not be attacked directly - Troper Cards can only lose Plot Points when a card used is destroyed. This effectively seperates them from direct combat. So, one could be stingy with using Cards to safeguard the Active Troper, but that would bring the detriment of not being able to do much damage to the enemy Troper and being slow in fulfilling objectives.

Post Ninja'd: Taking away attacking? I don't think that's even possible.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:30:28 by Matrix

 99 Ironeye, Thu, 12th Feb '09 10:32:36 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
ok, so, random crazy idea.

First of all, let's change plot points to story points. We already have plot cards running around and there's no reason we should risk our players incorrectly associating them.

Alright, so, players generate SP, which they place on Troper Cards. Players use those SP to Invoke Trope Cards. Those trope cards come into play with a certain number of SP on them (related to their cost, though not always the same). At the beginning of each turn, remove an SP from each Trope in play (but not each Troper). If it is impossible to remove an SP from a Trope, that trope is discarded (if we have different levels of "dead", these would go to the highest level—that is, the easiest to get back.) While in play, the tropes have a way to effect the board and all that.

Most tropes would have a one-time use that would send them to the dead pile—essentially the trope satisfying it purpose. Using up the trope this way generates SP. If the trope is removed for a reason other than using its ability, the controlling player looses cards as a penalty. Of course, we would restrict the abilities somehow so that they aren't particularly easy to use.

In this case, the problem isn't so much that your opponent will attack you directly, but that you won't be able to use your tropes before they become irrelevant and are "written out" (ie removed from play), causing much heartbreak. A key part of the game becomes how far you are willing to extend yourself. Also, Defying the tropes of the other players becomes a key strategy, as that forces the other player to take the card loss for introducing a useless trope.

There are, of course, exceptions. Twists change the story from its current path, and thus cost SP without any return. "Core" tropes, such as Evil Overlord, have no SP-generating abilities, instead serving as a backbone on which other tropes can be applied and providing passive benefits. These tropes would refresh their SP every time a relevant plot is complete or an objective card is flipped, and deal constant low damage (perhaps 1 card) every turn they are at 0 SP, as they are too essential to the story to be written out, but their ongoing presence serves no purpose.

Perhaps we have the only constant generation of SP be one per troper (applied directly to that troper). Thus, constant expansion of the story is needed to ensure a reasonable flow of SP. SP can be directly lost from tropers whenever a trope is played that that Troper is weak against. If a troper ever runs out of SP, it stops work on the story (is removed from the game). While loosing all tropers in not necessarily an automatic failure, you are unable to generate or spend SP, and thus must make due with whatever is currently in play.

Edit: "attacking" still remains, albeit in a MUCH reduced form. Technically, playing a trope that a Troper is vulnerable to (is disgusted by, is afraid of, etc.) is a direct attack. However, unless you already know which tropers your opponent is using, it is fairly futile to build a deck around such direct attacks. (Perhaps we change the mechanic to slow steady life loss while the trope is still in the story?) Anyway, the clever player will strategically use what few cards happen to be a weakness in order to maximize their effectiveness. In this case, it may be viable to invoke a trope you don't have any intent to use (taking the idea damage when it leaves play) just to take out an enemy troper.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:37:23 by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 100 Matrix, Thu, 12th Feb '09 10:38:26 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
Okay, I'm liking this!

By the way, I don't know if this was clear, but my idea for Tropers is that there is only one active per player at any time (the Active Troper). The other two are face down underneath it. When the Active Troper is defeated, the next one becomes Active.

Also, how will we manage Tropes doing damage to other Tropes?
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