It's ALL text: Even Evil Has Standards

"Even more heavy on text?" The previous image was literally nothing but text. There was no visual aspect at all.

^And in this replacement, the visuals do NOTHING to convey the trope. That leaves us with a trope conveyed entirely through text and useless imagery. What's the difference?

edited 11th Feb '11 1:45:54 PM by SeanMurrayI

I disagree. The Joker's expression adds to what he's saying. It's almost like he's surprised that Red Skull is being that evil.

It also shows up front that the person talking is The Joker, who is one of the most recognizable villains ever.

Just because a vocal minorty acts like we have some sort of official standard, rule, or policy which would deem this image "text-heavy" or somehow beyond the pale doesn't mean we actually do.

I'm generally against text-heavy images, but I think this one's great.

And I don't pretend we have a policy on them. I just think other images are often better choices for some pages. This does not seem to be one of those pages.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:14:43 PM by INUH

^^^So, what you're saying is, this is has the benefit of not requiring us to spell out the Joker's name, as we would if this was a page quote?

The visuals don't help convey the trope at all. They just show that The Joker is angry.

Remove text and you'd have no way of telling why the Joker was angry. keep the text. Keep the text, and there's so much emotion in those words (and the Bold Inflation) all on their own that they don't even require visuals to help with anything.

^^What, I can't give an opinion?

edited 11th Feb '11 2:17:50 PM by SeanMurrayI

There's a difference between reading the quote and then seeing that the Joker said it and seeing the Joker say it.

^And that's utterly pointless. Reading a name and looking at The Joker isn't that big of a convenience to fight for when we can try to find something with visuals that contribute to a trope's demonstration.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:19:49 PM by SeanMurrayI

It's not about "opinions" so much as asserting opinions as if they're fact, or representative of some supposed standard that we don't actually follow.

And, frankly, I find your position kind of baffling. I'm trying to see your point of view, but I just plain don't get it.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:21:25 PM by suedenim

^I'm asserting opinions, but I never once said I was right. I never once said that people had to go along with what I say. I never said I was stating fact.

I have my own standards. Other people have different standards, and that's fine, but I'm vocal about my own standards. The trope in this picture is conveyed entirely through the WORDS (and a lot of them). The imagery contributes nothing to conveying the trope that we wouldn't already find in a lengthy page quote.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:24:11 PM by SeanMurrayI

Do we have a better image?

I'm still open to other options.

None that come to mind this trope requires atleast some text and the image doesnt have that much text and the Joker's face in the first panel is lutz worthy.

(I am not a comicbook fan and I think the image is perfect.)

What I don't get is, how is depicting the people who speak the words "nothing?" To me, that sounds like the equivalent of saying, oh, a film adaptation of a book contributes nothing, because the words and characters are all there in the text. It really contributes nothing at all to see who's making the statements, what they look like, the context, etc.?

What I don't get is, how is depicting the people who speak the words "nothing?"

Because it's irrelevant to how the trope is conveyed. It could be two stick figures, one with a partially obscured swastika drawn on his head and the other with an angry face, and it would get the exact same point across exactly the same way it does now. It depends THAT MUCH on the text.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:33:46 PM by SeanMurrayI

But who cares? Why does that even matter?

Because it's better to have an IMAGE on a page with VISUALS that actually help convey the trope than have a box with a trope conveyed entirely through dialogue with meaningless talking heads.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:41:20 PM by SeanMurrayI

The reason why I care about that is because when we have another valid image that uses less text, we can make the one with heavy text a quote and in doing so, display both. However, when we don't have a valid image that works without so much text, I have no problem.

In this case, I think the Joker's Reaction Shots and the visual of Red Skull's swastika do add significantly to the text in the image; they help convey the mood associated with the trope. If it were just the Joker looking shocked and then angry at a swastika-adorned Red Skull, it would still communicate a lot of the trope.

Exactly. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around looking at that and saying "Nope. Just like stick figures and text."

Facial expressions also convey tone of voice that's otherwise lacking in a soundless medium.

That's what I said above. At least the way I see the image, the Joker's face conveys shock that Red Skull is a Nazi. I don't think the image would have the same effect if it was just a quote because the Joker's face wouldn't be visible. Having Joker look surprised at how evil Red Skull is helps illustrate the trope.

Also that.

edited 11th Feb '11 2:58:20 PM by JapaneseTeeth

^^^^But it's not immediately apparent that there even is a swastika. It's so obscured that it's not even possible to tell that it's there without either studying the picture longer than anybody typically should be studying a picture's content for context clues or by being told that it's there. That is NOT good.

^^But this picture doesn't need it—not with that text. And it doesn't influence the conveyance of the trope in any way. Without the text, you can't even tell that this trope was apparently being conveyed.

edited 11th Feb '11 3:00:33 PM by SeanMurrayI

I'll ask again. Do we have a picture option that works that well without text?

When you see the Joker say Nazi with that face in the first panel and look at the second panel how can you not see that it is a swastika?

That part alone yep.