Neon Genesis Evangelion

Stupid Gendo! I'm not your dead dumb bimbo of a wife even if I am partly cloned from her!

my mom never noticed me. she just pretended this doll was her daughter instead. it was heartrending.

edited 31st Jul '14 7:29:28 PM by Nikkolas

Boy, talk about parental issues huh?

Well they are all kids when you get right down to it. Parental issues are likely to be the main ones they have to cope with.

Also that whole end of the world thing but none of them seem too bothered by that so I guess it's not a factor.

Anyway, all American DVD releases of NGE are out of print. Which means they are pretty pricy everywhere you look. I checked Right Stuff just out of curiosity.

First Eva items listed were Rei and Asuka body pillows.

I am curious... Only weirdos are supposed to have stuff like that but, fuck, I realize I'm plenty weird already.

edited 31st Jul '14 9:18:33 PM by Nikkolas

I wouldn't mind having a Rei body pillow.

Bought the first 3 volumes of the manga finally.

Unless I'm very much mistaken the page about the Angel was not in the anime. About it being adaptable, not being "remote controlled", having it sown pr-programmed intelligence - all of that is detail for the manga and I appreciate the clarification. It's that kind of little detail that I was hoping the manga would provide.

Gendo says Shinji is to "ride in her." I don't recall him ever calling Eva Unit 01 a she in the anime either, at least not when talking to Shinji. In fact, it seems like everyone refers to Unit 01 as "her" in this.

Also another neat manga detail I just recalled - Shinji was left with his uncle. I always wondered where the hell he was before the series started. They never really went into it. I really think the series could have benefited from seeing a world post-Second Impact pre-Angel Attack. I dunno, that's based largely on a worldbuilding perspective. It's certainly not essential but maybe even for the characters it could have worked to see what they were all up to before the Angels returned. What were they doing to the wake of the near-extinction of the human race? I guess we saw bitts and pieces though but a little more couldn't have hurt.

Shinji: My father's never needed me but now he's built a -robot- that needs me? Some joke. Right. It doesn't make any sense. But SO WHAT? I'm not afraid to die! And I will NOT let father call me a coward!

Holy shit, Shinji is awesome. Who knew?

Interesting... The start of Chapter 5, with Shini thinking he's dead then seeing a vision of Yui and realizing he didn't want to die before calling out for his parnets, that wasn't in the anime was it? I wonder why picturing Yui gave him a sudden desire to live since he seemed resigned to death before he saw her.

I agree with you Misato, it doesn't matter what Shinji's motives were, he still saved the day. That is what should matter to determining a good person. You hear that over in the Gundam thread, you Kamille haters?

Speaking of Kamille, I retract what I said earlier about Shinji being "awesome." I liked that quote I posted but I think it's more accurate to say Manga Shinji is just more mouthy.

But I did like Shinji tearing up at Misato's praise instead of just being his usual glum self. Shinji was always so...mild in a very unhealthy way that even as seemingly whiny as he was he kept a lot in. Manga Shinji lets it all out, good and bad.

And that's Volume 1. Holy shit, I might have to buy Volumes 4-6 if they all go this fast. I'm sure the following volumes will have a lot more text and story in them and take longer though. At least I hope.

edited 1st Aug '14 1:01:59 PM by Nikkolas

Ya know I would say poor Shinji but after the first few times he really should have been ready for those Rock Paper Scissors contests.

Wait, I know the "meteor hit Antarctica" thing was all just a coverup but would sea levels rising cause volcanic eruptions? I legit don't know.

Wow, Toji is awful. "It ain't that my sister was went to the hospital, it's that she could get a scar and never be a babe." Fuck you dude.

Ooh, more mention of Shinji's uncle. I wonder if he's related to Gendo or Yui? My guess would be Yui. Either way, he hasn't tried to contact Shinji so maybe he just never cared or maybe he's dead or maybe he was never his uncle at all but some sort of plant or whatever you want to call it.

Interesting, wasn't it Misato who gave Anime Shinji the order to let Kensuke and Toji in the Eva? In the manga it was his idea and she was against it. Seems kind of minor but Shinji being bold is just a very radical change.

I don't remember if this was the reason he ran away the first time in the anime but here, he ran away because he thought Misato legitimately cared for him and then he found that report that she was spying on his activities and the like so he just thought she was looking at him as a useful tool. I can understand why that upset him since we saw how clearly her feelings mattered to him when he teared up at her praise.

I guess I just feel him being more...expressive helps Shinji.

How blunt of you Ritsuko, we could just kidnap Shinji and brainwash him into piling the Eva. Nice. Gendo kept quiet on that suggestion but he's a much craftier fellow than Ritsuko. Like he said "It's simplicity itself to foresee what a person will do when they're cornered." He knows force isn't necessary.

I agree with this entry on the Heartwarming NGE Moments:

"In the manga, Toji and Kensuke rush to the train station hoping to say goodbye to Shinji. They see the train pass and are dismayed...only to see Shinji and Misato hugging in reconciliation. The fact that Misato realizes Shinji is just a lonely kid who desperately wants to be loved and chooses to empathize with him instead of telling him that he's being useless and to toughen up like everyone else is a heartwarming development in their relationship in general."

And that's Volume 2. Holy shit, this is going way too fast. I went and bought up to Volume 9 because I'm tearing through this. I've only read a few manga up to this point and I recall them all taking way, way longer. Basara took forever just to get up to Volume 4.

EDIT:

Always hear about Anno but this guy◊ is my kinda guy.

edited 2nd Aug '14 3:16:24 PM by Nikkolas

You seem to be enjoying the Manga a lot. I can't wait for you to relive one certain moment from the anime in the Manga. You'll be surprise how they manage to make an event that was already bad in the anime, 10 times worse in the Manga.

You'll see why Shinji came close to punching Gendo, towards his reaction to said event.

The manga's pretty cool, I was reading it before I had access to the anime series. I only have like 10 chapters left to read, but I keep putting them off.

Anyway, I was going to post something about the 3.33 dub release being this month, but I just went to look it up and it looks like it's been delayed AGAIN. The thing is, Eva is a series which I associate almost exclusively with the dub voice actors - without the dub, I'm not going to watch the film.

I've more or less abandoned every Evangelion thread on TV Tropes since the movie came out to avoid spoilers (though I've come back to the Eva fanfiction thread a great deal), and I was stoked for the August 2014 release date. Now I'm just sad.

edited 3rd Aug '14 5:11:11 AM by MrMallard

Where did you hear August 2014?

At least now we know that Funi can redo, instead of knowing nothing.

Ah, I see. Thanks!

edited 3rd Aug '14 9:13:04 PM by TheAirman

August was the original date Manga Entertainment announced for 3.33's UK release before they announced another delay.

edited 3rd Aug '14 9:07:49 PM by JRPictures

I think Sadamoto explains why I'm enjoying the manga more than the anime very well:

1◊ 2◊ 3◊ 4◊

Specifically it's in 3 - basically that the manga doesn't bombard you with information as much and instead takes its time. It also gives you some greater insight into the character's thoughts.

I like reading Sadamoto's interviews, he seems like someone I could relate to more than Anno and he explains himself very well here. The reason his Shinji is different from Anno's is because, well, Sadamoto is not Anno. They have different ideas and perspectives on the same situations. Even if we did hear Anime Shinji's internal dialogue more it probably wouldn't sound like Manga Shinji's thoughts because Anno wouldn't agree with the stuff Sadamoto has written into the character.

I would have posted the whole interview but for some reason it comes out looking like total shit... I hope those pages I posted are clear enough.

edited 4th Aug '14 12:34:07 PM by Nikkolas

This flashback of Shinji with his aunt, uncle and the bike was curious... He got into trouble to see if Gendo would come to pick him up at the station?

And then he wakes up and finds Rei there looking at him as he says "Mom...." Foreshadowing! Also weirdness. But I like some weirdness in my shipping so ah well.

And that's Volume 3 done. Man it's going to be annoying when I get to Volume 9. I still have to buy 4 more volumes and even then I'll have to wait until the end of November for Volume 14. Bleh.

And hey, Asuka's intro chapter marks the first real story change. She kicked that angel's ass off-panel and met Shinji and them in Japan instead of off on that ship. There have been little alterations or additions up to this point but I think this chapter is the first chapter that is completely different. I hope this is a start of a trend. I have enjoyed how different some things are but 99% is the same which is probably another reason I've been sailing through the first 3 volumes so fast.

That's not nice Shinji.◊

Holy shit, did Asuka explain the real Second Impact to Shinji in the anime? I really doubt it, he was totally in the dark about everything at every time from what I recall. But Manga Asuka laid it all out here, about the "First Angel" being discovered, the subsequent blast and the real purpose of the Evas being to prevent Third Impact. Thank you manga for being so succinct and open, it is very much appreciated. And Shinji is slightly more clued in, always a plus.

Shinji: Look, I don't have a complex. I hate him. So much that I wonder why he's my father. But... I don't really WANT to hate him.

I am intensely curious about Gendo's and Shinji's relationship in the manga. People have already kinda spoiled me on Manga Gendo. I take it a lot of people on here and elsewhere dislike him compared to his Anime self. In any event, while I hav ea rough idea of how it ends, I wanna see how it develops ya know? Knowing an ending is nothing if you don't know the middle.

Why is Kaji so frickin' awesome? I guess in a series where everyone depressingly neurotic or stoically crazy the guy who is smiling and in control and always helping othrs really stands out as the best.

So i was right, the manga had Rei be the first pilot of Unit 01. I had thought that was only manga canon but I wasn't quite sure. Way back in like the first chapter Shinji sees Rei piloting Unit 01. of course in the anime his first sight of her is on the stretcher. Interesting, I was reminded elsewhere that Unit 01 rejected her in the anime at some point? I was wondering about that because Rei is a clone of Yui so you'd figure she'd work great in teh robot with Yui's soul. Apparently not. At least in the anime.

But that's Volume 4 down... I liked Asuka's introduction but the dance stuff was stupid and boring just like in the anime. I hope the next volume switches up the story a bit like I mentioned earlier and it keeps things interesting.

edited 5th Aug '14 2:25:11 AM by Nikkolas

The whole party bit was touching for both Shinji and Asuka. They both...unwound and Shinji looked happier than I ever recall seeing him in the anime.

Now Shinji is having a chat with Rei that i don't remember in the anime but maybe it happened. About how he needs to talk to his father and tell him how he feels or else nothing will change. I guess I can already see how that's gonna end up but Shinji does seem like he's trying to "mend the fences" more than in the anime. I mean he's putting forward more effort even if he doesn't want to as he's resigned it's hopeless. Like i said, Gendo's and Shinji's relationship interests me a lot as it's been the one thing I've been hearing about Eva even before I got into the series.

Speaking of Rei though, they put her in Unit 01 and she said she lost herself and that she felt another person's presence... Everything seemed to be going well though. Yui's body and Yui's soul should get along you'd think. Then again, I guess I can see why one might reject the other. I don't think Rei particularly liked the experience.

A very interesting page.◊ I definitely don't remember that in the grave scene in the anime. It's not completely awful - it sounds to me just like more trademark "Gendo Coldness." Still, an interesting exchange.

Right after this scene of him brushing off Shinji, he has a chat with Rei. It at fist looked like it was going to be the same as the anime where he kinda ignored Shinji but seemed to take note of Rei. Only we have Rei's internal thoughts at this point right after talking to Gendo. "All we talk about is work... He seems to care about me, but he's really thinking about someone else." Sadamoto mentioned earlier in one of the interview bits I posted that he wanted to give us insight into the characters' "souls" and I think he's doing that. I really do enjoy that we have the ability to glimpse what goes on in these peoples' heads.

More Gendo and Shinji◊ So this is particularly interesting to me because it makes it seem like Shinji is defending his "hated" father here. He's apparently been hearing horrible things about him ever since he was young, and this is right on the heels of that graveyard scene, but he's still sticking up for his father. Shinji is a remarkably...kind person if that's the right word.

Fuyutsuki and Gendo◊ Fuyutsuki turned out to be one of my favorite characters in the anime. I'm curious to see what happens in the manga, if anything is different at all in regards to him. I did like this exchange.

Another benefit to getting the manga, in addition to the Sadamoto blurbs, is the "extra info" I just read.

Info about Manga Angels vs. Anime Angels.◊ I never would have realized this on my own. I wonder if this change will be significant.

Shinji: What I feel for Ayanami...it doesn't go with words...like "like" and "want to go out with"...she's a part of me that was torn away a long time ago...

Completely disregarding the Yui clone stuff, I wonder what exactly this could mean?

So I mentioned earlier that Manga Shinji was clued in a bit more than his anime self. Now he's SUPER clued in. Kaji just laid it all out - Angels always target Nerv HQ, all the Evangelions are stationed there, and this is all no coincidence. Someone knew about all this and that person is Gendo. He also explicitly knew about Second Impact while it was only strongly implied in the anime. Finally, Kaji explains the group behind Gendo and his foreknowledge - SEELE. Did Shinji ever even hear that term in the anime?

I appreciate this kind of clarity, thank you.◊

And speaking of clarity... Does the manga support the Evil Yui theory?◊ Seems to me his phrasing here implies the way Gendo is - the man he has become - is Yui's fault.

Intriguing.

And that's Volume 5! Wow, that was a much more satisfying and tantalizing finish than any previously.

edited 5th Aug '14 6:20:33 PM by Nikkolas

Okay this is my last sequential post. I want to ask people here if they would prefer if I just stopped posting in a row and maybe just edit my previous posts from now on if I have any new input?

I think what you've been doing is alright.

Yeah, no problems here.

Alright thank you. I just didn't want to like hijack this thread so no one else wanted to post in here.

I like Kaji encouraging Shinji to forge ahead even if he doesn't want to. Yes Shinji you are in a very sucky position but as he said you are also in a unique position. you are the son of the Ikaris and while Kaji didn't come out and say this, I think his point was something like "it's your responsibility to fix the mess these two have made."

So I remember in the Director's Cut of one of the episodes Asuka tries to undress for Kaji, or at least she shows off her breasts, and begs him to look at her. It was honestly really painful to watch... Asuka was always the most "outspoken" so her pain and anguish perhaps came through clearer than Shinji's or Rei's. Anyway, in the manga, she more or less does the same thing with Kaji again but not in a flashback. More importantly, the scene didn't just "end" after that. We got to see Kaji's reaction and how he'd handle it. I always wondered just how much he knew or suspected about how damaged Asuka was... I still can't tell.

Holy shit so Shinji knew Toji was the Fourth? More importantly, Toji's sister has been in intensive care the whole manga and their "incentive" to get him to join and pilot Unit 03 was to give his sister better medical care? The fuck.

Hey, I like Toji being revealed as the pilot like this. It was always obvious in the anime but they treated it like some sort of mystery. Toji just got kinda quiet and standoffish after learning about it all. Here he admits to Shinji how scared he is and Shinji of all people councils him on facing his fear and tries to help him feel better. Goddam, knowing what I know, this is gonna be brutal....

Interesting...the battle with the "infected" Unit 03 is already different I think. Shinji knew it's Toji in there from the start so he shouts at Rei not to hurt the Eva/Angel. Gendo orders her to do it anyway but she hesitates when she learns Toji is in there. Rei already seems more independent than how I remember her in the anime.

So Toji didn't actually die in the anime did he? He ended up surviving? As horrible as it is, I think him dying in the manga makes much more sense. It also breaks my heart to see Hikari...to know the last words she and Toji exchanged were "we will get together when I get back." Okay that wasn't EXACTLY it but very close. She clearly thought so at any rate. I wonder if we'll even see her again...

Unit 01 is rejecting Gendo...according to him anyway. Now this I remember in Rebuild so I assume it happened in the anime too. In the manga it's when he tries to have Rei pilot it. Yui hates you Gendo! Maybe?

Jesus, Kaji's backstory is just as horrible as I had heard. You can't blame little Kaji at all for what he did...but I know he blames himself.

But regardless of that, give Shinj◊ a break◊

I just...these three situations aren't really comparable Kaji. Yes Shinji could have done more to save Toji than simply freeze up and refuse to do anything, but that isn't remotely similar to a young Misato being feried off to safety while her father died. It's also not similar to you trading your brother's life for your own.

Overall...the scene is still very poignant but I prefer the anime version. The anime version was actually inspirational. This is just...fucked up.

And then a nice ominous ending. When Gendo smiles, a puppy dies.◊ Or maybe the human race.

But then after this there is ANOTHER ominous ending with Kaworu. I'm very intrigued to see Manga Kaworu. Anime Kaworu was one of my favorite characters and the fact he gets an entire arc in the manga is nice. But I hear he's very different but how different seems to depend on who you talk to. I look forward to it in any event.

And that's Volume 7 down. With any luck I can get Volume 10-13 later today when I get paid back some cash I'm owed. I don't want to stop at Volume 9!

To cap off this post, I really like this page. I'm not sure why.◊

edited 7th Aug '14 1:22:22 AM by Nikkolas

Toji was crippled in the Anime, was killed off in the Manga. That was the moment that was handle even worse in Manga then how it was in the anime.

Also no reaction to Shinji nearly punching Gendo? I was actually looking forward to that.

edited 7th Aug '14 10:54:27 AM by AfroWarrior27

Well of course I was like "about damn time! This is what EVERYONE has been wanting you to do for years, Shinji!" But it couldn't be all awesome right on the heels of what happened to Toji. It was just kinda sad since it shows how at the end of his rope Shinji was.

Okay I put my read on halt for a bit there because i wasn't sure if i could get Volumes 10-13. I have them now however so let's continue with Volume 8.

So I totally spaced on Rei being a Yui clone until someone reminded me a few weeks or a month ago or whatever it was. It's totally hitting me in the face with this volume though. Gendo is being...well, creepy in a different way.

1◊ 2◊

Oh dear. I've heard some Internet speculation on what he might have done to Rei. Not that subtle in the manga I don't think.

Heh, reminds me of the Gundam 00 meme. "Fucking Ribbons." What was Alejandro doing when he wasn't on screen? Fucking Ribbons.

Oh no, Naked Mom Attack! Be gone Evil Ghost Bitch! But seriously, what's with the panels of just Yui's breasts? I'm not against boobs but come on. A whole panel of just them? Regardless of all that though, she's being creepy ghost. Ya know the ghosts who want you to "join them." She's sure convinced Shinji to stay absorbed in the Eva.

But wait! It's like I said, this volume is all about Rei and Yui so far. "I am you. you are myself. You are what used to be me." vs. "Yes you are me. I am what used to be you." Yui and Yui's clone fighting for Shinji's soul. I think Freud would love this manga.

Okay so that wasn't "real Yui." It was "evil phantom Yui?" I dunno what the hell. Shinji has another mental trip but this Yui is a lot nicer and encourages him to go wherever he wants. More importantly, Imaginary Gendo was there too and so was Imaginary Baby Shinji. I figure it might be a flashback and I would post it but there be boobies so I'll settle for copying the dialogue that I found noteworthy:

Gendo: This is a shady spot to stand in.

Yui: For our son.

Gendo: ...in Hell.

Yui: No. If he has the will to live...he can make a Heaven wherever he is. As long as he lives...he'll find the chance to be happy everywhere.

Gendo: ... Is that what you think?

Gendo looks as sour as ever and I think his response reflects that. Yui meanwhile is all smiles. If this is actually a snapshot of the two of them while they were alive, it doesn't look like much has changed for old Gendo even after Yui's death. But as I already said, the authenticity of this whole bit is very much suspect.

And hey! It's the manga equivalent of one of my favorite parts in the anime, Fuyutsuki's flashback after being kidnapped by SEELE. This is a rather big...uh, I guess you could call it "character building" time.

For example, what Yui has to say of Gendo: "He hates being alone. ...And I find him very endearing."

And Fuyutsuki: "But...everyone I knww who had an opinion said the same thing: Gendo Rokubungi married Yui Ikari for two reasons: Access to her groundbreaking theories...and to the patron supporting her work."

So Yui characterizes Gendo's primary characteristic as a dislike of solitude? But Fuyu just thinks he was using Yui so is what she saw in him even genuine? I guess time will tell.

Heh, I like this. Yui laments that Fuyutsuki doesn't like Gendo; that Gendo would like if a man like Fuyutsuki could "understand" him and be at his side. Earlier on, before Fuyutsuki was abducted, we have a panel of him saying he doesn't understand Gendo because Gendo refuses to see Shinji even after Shinji's miraculous return from being in the Eva. So I guess Yui got half of her wish - Fuyutsuki was by Gendo's side but he never did figure him out.

Gendo: Eva Unit 00...the prototype for "Project E"...our plan to regenerate Adam.

Wait, what? Okay forget Gendo having his own ideas, why would you want to regenerate Adam? That seems kinda the opposite of what you should want to do from what I know of the whole "lore." I guess maybe this is a manga departure from "canon"?

Speaking of which, the underground cavern they are all working in was made by some other super-advanced civilization according to Gendo. There was no other civilization on Earth in "canon" as far as I know. The FAR that made Adam and Lilith never came to Earth to build, shit just hit the planet I thought?

Getting back to Pre-Yui is eaten Gendo vs. Gendo as of the present, Fuyutsuki does say that Yui's death "changed" him. So maybe he came to doubt his earlier opinion that Gendo was just using her?

So we're finally getting to Naoko and Ritsuko. I think the whole Magi System as her mom's motherhood, womanhood and scientist(hood) was already well documented by now in the anime but it still hasn't been mentioned yet. We're just FINALLY getting to the Akagis going crazy with Ritsuko threatening to murder Rei. I don't remember that in the anime...

And that's Volume 8.

So this manga is totally living up to the "It has a lot of Rei" part of what I was told. lol Asuka is just kinda there and does something every now and then but all the important shit involves Rei.

Overall things are really getting fascinating and fun to read which is probably why Volume 8 took way longer to read than most others. I think I'm gonna be going slower for these last 5 volumes. But hey, I'm not complaining. This is what I've been waiting for. Lots of people elsewhere talking down about the "shit ending" of the manga and I want to see it for myself. Things are really gonna go off the rails from the anime at this point I think.

To end this post:

To hell with just trying to punch Gendo, this is what everyone really wanted.◊

Poor Sadamoto.◊

edited 9th Aug '14 1:13:35 AM by Nikkolas

One thing I do really like about the manga is the interactions between Shinji and Rei. Being the shipper I am, it is nice to see those two together in a few scenes, and also made both characters' developments much stronger imo.

Rei is much more independent as I noted earlier. She thinks badly of Gendo pretty early on, she moves away from him when he wants to...uh, comfort her, she has this nice sweet scene in Volume 8 I forgot to mention with her and Shinji just walking the grounds and talking about the different times they "touched." She asks to hold his hand and he says sure and it's rather touching.

i still feel for Asuka though. She just doesn't contribute much.

Let me guess, Evageeks. >_>

And the heck? I don't recall that knife scene at all.

edited 9th Aug '14 1:26:25 AM by AfroWarrior27

Eva Geeks is about as elitist as you can get, considering that they only view Anno as the "right" person and all that, and think he can do no wrong. Hence them calling 3.33 a flawless masterpiece and the manga's different take "s**t".

That, and they are almost all Asuka fanboys.

edited 9th Aug '14 1:32:20 AM by LDragon2

Actually it was Something Awful if you've heard of it. It has an Eva thread where I have been discussing some of my thoughts on the manga as I read it. They do not like Shinji trying to punch Gendo - feel it "misses the whole point" of Shinji's character. Said the same thing for Kaworu. I am inclined to agree about Kaworu but I've enjoyed the manga so much up to this point I'm gonna give Manga Kaworu a chance. I once swore off the manga because of the differences between Anime and Manga Kaworu, saying he was RUINED FOREVER but no more.

Speaking of which, I think he shows up next volume. Yay, my favorite character! I might read Volume 9 tonight to get a glimpse of evil kitten-strangling Kaworu in action.

EDIT:

Hey Afro Warrior, it was you who gave me the recommendation to read the manga.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=ec60ujase6446rkkaaz0ntl6&page=265

Thanks for that.

edited 9th Aug '14 3:24:32 AM by Nikkolas