Neon Genesis Evangelion

Of all the characters, Asuka probably has it better than most of them in Rebuild.

"Better" is relative. For me, they've done her character a large disservice by not giving her sufficient Character Development, especially given that there are strong implications of a divergent backstory via her usage of a hand puppet.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

As for why I prefer the TV ending to EOE, as we have discussed, the strength of NGE lay in its characters correct? Regardless if you think the plot is well done or told or whatever else, the true merit of NGE and why it became such a phenomenon is because it's an exploration into human frailty.

The anime ending is all about the characters, most especially Shinji. We get a full insight into his head at last. He's a poor screwed up to all hell little kid and that's why he's the main character of this show. Exploring his imaginings or musings or whatever else all that was supposed to be was great. As was his final conviction and finding of purpose. It was rather triumphant since Shinji, even when he made up his mind in the show, wasn't really a man of conviction. It seemed to me that the end of NGE was him finally finding that conviction.

EOE though? As already addressed it was supposed to be a "proper ending." When I completed the anime I was FURIOUS at Episode 25 and 26. "THIS DIDN'T EXPLAIN SHIT! WHAT ARE THE ANGELS? WHAT WS THAT LANCE? WHAT THE FUCK DO ALL THESE TERMS MEAN AND WHAT IS GOING ON!!!"

EOE exists to "explain" that. It is thus entirely a product of the inferior segment of NGE - the storyline. It is less about the character of Shinji than the anime's ending was and was more about trying to connect the dots and plot threads and make some sense of all this.

Thus I view the anime's ending as being what NGE was about - the Characters. End of Evangelion was about the Plot.

Also while I may not know much about the Eva franchise as a whole, I know which is my favorite Gendo.◊

edited 7th Jul '14 1:34:23 PM by Nikkolas

I know which is my favorite Gendo.

BROTHER!!!!!

@Scherzo 09

Actually, I'm being moderate with my criticism of Rebuild rather than full-on bitching. There's a difference.

@ L Dragon 2

What is this..I don't even...

HOW?

How does Asuka have it better? She has a crappy new name and has taken a back seat to character development.

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

@Nikkolas

All your grievances about EOE are explained bro. They were explained long ago. The lance..etc. You haven't been looking hard enough.

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

No, I'm not caring hard enough.

I'm sure there have been doctoral theses written about how EOE is the finest piece of cinema ever and it explains everything so perfectly that if I understood it all I would orgasm from how great the storytelling was.

But that isn't the point. The plot isn't the point. The characters are. And I felt the characters were better served in the end of the anime than the movie where the most development they had was being killed.

ASUKA'S HERE!!! ASUKA'S DEAD!!!

Like I said, Asuka was one of my favorites and her sole contribution to the movie is providing teh comatose body for our hero to jerk off over. Her "fight" against SEELE's Evas was really dumb too. She should have gotten destroyed immediately. I might not have understood much about the plot but I knew enough that they had those S2 Engines and she did not. Therefore she never stood a chance. Her holding out that long was just bad drama and a weak attempt at emotional manipulation.

edited 7th Jul '14 2:00:36 PM by Nikkolas

Did they ever explain why the Mass Production EVA looked like The Joker had designed them?

I really enjoy Rebuild for what it is, it's own story.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

What I meant by Asuka having it better was that when compared to how everyone else in Rebuild by themselves has gotten it, she's had it better.

Then you can't fault EOE if your problem is your simply not caring enough. That seems more about you choosing not to comprehend the film and criticizing the movie because you choose no to understand.

And while it is true that the strength of NGE is about the characters, it strength is also about the characters involvement and effect in the overall plot. You simply just can't ignore everything the plot has established even if it is a character driven story.

And the anime ending only concluded an ending for Shinji, there was still tons of characters that we were left hanging by the end of it. The show just doesn't revolve only around Shinji.

And to say EOE is more about the plot than the characters is also very wrong, many of events are set in motion due to the acts of what Shinji and some of the other characters does in general and the effect of it. And many of the character arc are concluded. To say it cares more about plot strikes a wrong mark to me.

As far as Re Take there other problems it has, but there treatment of Rei is by far the most biggest.

edited 7th Jul '14 5:07:23 PM by AfroWarrior27

Misato wants to bang Shinji and now she's dead.

Yes, I guess that's a conclusion to her character arc.....maybe? Death is a conclusion in a sense...the only conclusion everyone really got.

I've already talked about how badly handled the storyline is. Why SHOULD I care? All the anime did was through Proper Nouns at you and never explain what any of it meant. We've already gone over how it's never truly laid out what SEELE's motives were. I'm also 99% sure nowhere in the anime did they say what exactly the Lance thing was. I was especially trying to keep aye out fo rthat.

EOE exists to try and give some context to all this contextless nonsense they spouted at us for most of the show. If it was a book series it would be a bunch of books that have -Terms- in them and then the final book just rattles of "and this means this and this is why that happened and that means that...."

I don't consider that good storytelling, sorry. Hence why i ignore the plot and focus on what NGE actually did kinda well.

edited 7th Jul '14 2:34:31 PM by Nikkolas

EOE Misato- Dies a hero, and in a real badass way in the manga version, basically in newfound peace with herself. An abrupt end, sure, but we get to see how and why she gets there.

Rebuild Misato- Becomes an embittered, lifeless, MUH ANGST Gendo Mark II but in far less control than him. After Magical Time Skip that conveniently avoids showing HOW she got there.

I think I'll take the former, thanks.

edited 7th Jul '14 3:06:04 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

Nope. As we've already said, End was the originally-planned ending. It wasn't made up out of nothing to satisfy the fans. I can see where you're coming from, though.

That's an incredibly simple way of looking at most of the character conclusion.

And you should care if you're ranting about the storyline not making sense when it is explain, and no EOE doesn't exist to merely give context to the context less. That was the original concept of the finale.

In fact there's even tons of evidence that foreshadow the events of EOE. There's a reason why you don't get NGE, if you chose to ignore the plot entirely than you'll never understand comprehend NGE. It's a bad ideal regardless to ignore the plot because then you'll have tons of issue in a long run.

edited 7th Jul '14 3:29:09 PM by AfroWarrior27

Well Evangelion is way down on the list of Fictions I Care About. It's decidedly in the Meh category - good in some ways, horrible in others.

I asked my question about the Angels because I was discussing replacing Shinji with Kamille frm Zeta Gundam. I wanted to know what the Angels' deal was and how it might relate to his Newtype abilities.

I honestly don't really have any more interest in understanding the show than that.

Incidentally I was told either earlier in this thread or on another site that the developers and writers had no idea what the Angels even were well passed the first episode. They came up with all that stuff later. True or false, the person telling this to me was saying the plot didn't matter, the characters did. And I agree with them.

Also you like Brotherhood a lot, right? Or well the manga? That is a well-told story with a very satisfying conclusion.

edited 7th Jul '14 3:42:52 PM by Nikkolas

I dunno I really like 3.0 Misato. She just has more important shit to deal with than dealing with Shinji. She's lived through the End of the World twice.

edited 7th Jul '14 3:43:29 PM by Scherzo09

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

The only character I really care about From Eva is Kaworu. In a cast of deceitful, manipulative wrecks he was open, honest and just plain sweet to Shinji.

edited 7th Jul '14 4:04:12 PM by Nikkolas

@Afro Warrior 27

While I do like RE-TAKE I do sort of agree that the treatment of Rei in the doujin was poor. I suppose it's because she's too much of a cryptic philosopher that we didn't get too many chapters with her.

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

Well you really can't bring in Manga/Brotherhood because both that and this have a much different writing style all together. As for as EOE actual ending goes...ehhhhhhh

You can go one way or another in regards to that....

All i'm saying is the show will be more troublesome to you if you ignore the plot. Even if you don't like it the plot still has to be taken into consideration. No matter how much it might confuse.

Her characterization was rather off, she comes off as being incredibly obsessive & clingy towards Shinji in that fic.

edited 7th Jul '14 5:12:29 PM by AfroWarrior27

How is "Shikinami" a crappy name? There's even a Theme Naming motif connecting it with "Ayanami" and "Makinami", as explained in Trivia.Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Maybe because it's too much of a contrived coincidence to have all three female pilots with a '-nami' family name? I mean, what are the odds. It's just lame, that's what it is.

edited 8th Jul '14 3:31:29 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

It's called Thematic Naming.

edited 8th Jul '14 3:33:19 PM by Scherzo09

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

But it's stupid from an in-universe perspective. And it's not as smart as it would seem on a first glance.

Okay, so their names follow a theme. So what? Does that truly tell you anything? Does it really mean anything worthwhile? No, it's just a 'cute' thing that thinks it's clever when it's just lame.

I think it's supposed to also indicate how she's kind of a different character than her NGE counterpart.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.