Dragon Ball Z Abridged

"Wow Ichigo you really hurt Chad's feelings"

"Who the fuck is Chad?"

"Friendship Ended with Chad, Renji is my friend now"

But in the end, he didn't entirely leave his friends behind. Why, in his final battle, he had the assistance of his good friends Renji, Uryu and Aizen.

Largely because of the changes the anime made when adaptation the manga IIRC. The anime went for a monster of the week format while the manga is kind of massively different on that count. There's something like only three youma total in the manga version of the first season while the original anime uses how many dozens? Then there's also making the villains dispose of their mooks for failure rather than having them actually kill them, like Rei incinerating Jadeite or Minako killing Beryl in the manga.

Indeed.

Hilariously enough, in the Manga (and the recent Crystal adaptation), it's both the opposite and the same.

Sailor Moon is somewhat more competent, but at times doesn't seem much stronger than her original anime counterpart, but the Senshi are a lot more useless (especially in the black moon and Death Busters arcs), where they just get stomped by the villains, only for Sailor Moon (and then later Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) to waltz in and one-shot the enemy.

Possible solution to that:

Say you have a very expansive world, left open to the possibility of conflict happening outside the scope of the protagonist while still possibly within the scope of supporting characters.

Characters who don't get focus return later on with, "I was having adventures elsewhere. Check out my cool new toy I got while I was out."

Lotta fans take issue with anything happening off-screen. Which can be justified when it comes back out of nowhere and with weak reasoning. Other times it can be really silly though.

I feel like such things would be kinda fun as side episodes. Like, Goku, Vegeta and so on are doing whatever major plot is going on, and during a down time we see what's going on with Yamcha, who's playing baseball or helping some people, or with Tien who is maybe recreating the Crane School or... (I dunno what Tien does). Maybe have an episode with Gohan if he's been out of focus regarding him as the Great Saiyaman (does he still do that? I've not been keeping up with Super) or helping some people.

I will say, I feel like many problems are kinda out because even if there's no need for the enemy to be a threat for a "day in the life" type episode, Goku's exploits have kinda removed most potential for random threats, what with him killing Freiza, dealing with most notable Earth threats in DB, and dealing with any newly created threats. The best I can think is random planet traders showing up on the Earth without knowing what they were getting into and then getting bodied by Krillin or Gohan or something.

This is true. The reason they had to have Goku start fighting Gods and dudes form alternate universes is because he'd beaten the shit out of everyone else in his universe. And any one still around for one reason or another is nowhere near a threat to him.

Goku's basically the tension-killer for any conflict the weaker characters could have. Not just because of how powerful he is, but because of the other shit they've added to him and the universe over the course of the series. At this point, not only is Goku powerful enough to vaporize any terrestrial threat with a stern glance, but

• He can teleport instantly to any place in the universe so long as he can track an energy signature there.
• He can sense energy signatures across the entire universe and even all the way to the afterlife.
• All the protagonists can communicate telepathically with Kaio-sama, who can contact Goku at any point.

Most series can at least use "Protagonist is busy" as an excuse for the weaker characters having adventures, but at this point, there is basically no reason why any great villain that Tien or Krillin encounters couldn't be resolved in half a second by Goku teleporting in, projectile decapitating the villain into space with a flick, then returning to whatever he was doing.

Being ridiculously overpowered is only the tip of the iceberg.

edited 31st May '17 7:21:25 PM by TobiasDrake

If he was fighting someone that was pushing him to his limits, he wouldn't have time to do that.

Of course, at that point, why would we want to watch the others with their lesser fights when a much more climactic fight is going on?

What if he wants to help them with their self esteem issues, huh? He could make up an excuse that he can't come help!

Because filler!

That was Toei's rationale for watching everyone bumble around with Ginyu Frog while Goku was battling Frieza.

Oh, and let's not forget "Humans v. Random Ginyu Force" while Goku was battling Frieza.

They were kinda desperate for filler during the Frieza battle.

edited 31st May '17 7:25:26 PM by TobiasDrake

God, I hated that so much. What's worse is that they left it in for Kai. As if that wasn't bad enough, they decided to bring it back for Super.

I want to find whoever had that idea, both of them, and shoot them. Repeatedly.

No. Only one bullet for both.

We don't waste good bullets on those types.

I mean, even Kai kept that part in, when they usually cut out anything else involving filler.

Also, Goku already did that; see him coming to Earth while Beerus was fucking everyone over at some point before Vegeta's rage moment, and not intervening till the end because "he was formulating a strategy to beat Beerus".

edited 31st May '17 7:27:58 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Toei really likes the Ginyu Frog. He also showed up a couple times in the show just to remind us he exists. I think he was trying to teach other frogs poses at one point?

And like most Toei filler, his continued existence is a massive plot hole. Even if we're willing to credit that Porunga transported just this one frog but none of Namek's other wildlife to Earth, there's basically no excusing him being resurrected by the "Everyone on Earth except the evil ones" wish at the end of Buu.

Maybe the Eternal Dragons have a sweet spot for sapient wildlife and/or don't discriminate against beings who can't really do jack-shit to anyone?

Just want to say the World Tournaments/Tenkaichi Budokai were excellent for giving weaker characters time to shine and impress. No one thought Krillin was stronger than Goku but Krillin still got good fights. The almighty titans clashed but even the lesser fighters were interesting.

Just because the MC is strongest doesn't mean weaker characters can't be in awesome fights.

Alternatively, could we have characters with unique powers? It's not just liner power progression of A beats B who beats C so why give a shit about D?

edited 31st May '17 7:38:05 PM by Nikkolas

Wait, they left Ginyu body swapping with Bulma in Kai? Why!?

Shenron has very high standards for what constitutes really evil. It is known.

Technically they can put him in a different universe or timeline. He can't use instant transmission out of those.

My guess would be episode length. Toei cut out most filler but probably left some in just to keep all the episodes approximately the same length. The Ginyu frog stuff was present, but massively trimmed down from what it originally was.

The thing is, you don't need to have the side characters go through conflicts that would be solved by dial-a-Goku. Once you've committed to dedicating screentime to random adventurers with a different cast, the conflict does not need to be of the same nature that Goku deals with. Personal stakes, slice of life, self improvement etc.

I mean, people love banging on about how power level doesn't make a character worthwhile/worthless. So don't focus the episodes on trying to bring the secondaries back up in power.

Also, the DB tournaments really weren't good for the weaker characters. Any decent showing was inevitably revealed to be caused by their opponent holding back an arbitrary amount that just enabled the showing.

Then once the real fight starts, the fighters show off that they could have just effortlessly breezed through everyone before then. Goku could make anyone look like a good fighter if he held back juuuust at the level where he outclassed them but allowed them to perservere and show off. And that's what he did.

Made incredibly obvious in the 23rd Budokai - Kuririn has an impressive showing against Piccolo, but once Goku and Piccolo start fighting they soon realize the exhausted, horribly beaten Piccolo can still kill everyone else without expending enough merit to even factor in the outcome of his fight with Goku. They are zeroes compared to him.

Which makes Goku seem like an asshole to be honest; I mean, I get conserving your strength for bigger fights, but making your opponent seem like they have a chance before you pull the rug out is such a dick move lol.

About the side characters with side plot things. It's funny how for all of the crap Super gets, that's one thing it kind of does right. I remember Gohan had a two parter that dealt with him and Saiyaman issues. It was pretty fun for the most part.

I feel like the problem with such plots though is that they tend to blatantly feel like filler until Goku shows up to fight the main villain. The Namek Saga was pretty good about this as Goku hadn't arrived yet, so Gohan, Krillin, Vegeta, and Piccolo all had pretty good showings despite not measuring up to Goku.

The key here is to make such conflicts feel important. And the reasons for writing out Goku to be legit. In the Saiyan arc, he was dead and on his way back from the Afterlife. In Namek, he was out of commission as a result of the fallout from the previous arc.

Another reason I feel like the rest of the cast feel useless is because...well, unlike in Z, Goku isn't incapacitated at all. He can fight to his fullest capacity. It worked before because Goku wasn't around, so the audiences` thoughts are like "Oh man, how are they going to get out of this without Goku" but since Goku is there, it's more like "When are they going to get bodied so Goku can show up"

So it wasn't necessarily the supporting cast were "stronger", they were just put in situations that allowed them to show off their abilities and characters. Writing out Goku for most of Z was actually a good idea for the most part as it allowed the supporting cast to trudge on without him. Something I feel Super is missing out on, which is why everyone else feels so useless.