A Song Of Ice And Fire

Bran's rise is creepy and disturbing but that doesn't mean he'll turn against humanity. He doesn't actually have a motive to fight humanity. It's just that his ascent is built on other people's sacrifices including Jojen and Hodor and possibly Theon and probably much more...Bran is just as important as Daenerys and Jon in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying Bran won't be important. And you're right that he has no motive to support the Others and oppose humanity.

But his actions as a warg have been consistently selfish: in particular, regularly possessing Hodor simply to have the chance to walk and to interact with Meera, despite realizing that it traumatizes him. His motiviations for going beyond the Wall aren't "save the world"; they're "regain the ability to walk" (when he doesn't yet fully understand warging) and them, after meeting the thee-eyed-raven, "gain some ability which compensates for my inability to walk".

His actions are thoroughly understandable - he's a child who has lost almost everything, from his family to his ability to move independently, and he had no guidance on what uses of warging were moral or immoral. But there's a definite indication from Varamyr's chapter that breaking the 'laws' of warging has a corrupting effect, and Bran has been breaking them left, right, and center; if he had the opportunity to possess a human with all their mental faculties and live out his fantasy of being a knight, would he refrain? What about more than one human? What about an army?

edited 9th Oct '17 4:42:33 PM by Galadriel

I come thinking if Jon act as a bridge between the realm and the free folks by allowing them pass through the wall,maybe wight Jon will act as a bridge between the realm and the Others by allowing them cross the wall as well .

"Show deserves to be hated for a lot of things. "

Sure, but rising Stannis into this he-cant-do-not-wrong is annoying, specially since most of them go on rant about how the show suck and all.

"Basically they want to turn Jon Snow into the Sue that they accuse Daenerys of being. "

that is typical, "my chararter deserve to be a sues because it appeals to me, the others can die in a fire"

And since the show is very dark, that atract a lot of edgy fans who wants Jon to be was dark as posible.

"I wish people would stop bringing in that fucking Eagle thing"

Yeah no, get used to it because people will bring that over and over and over....

The reason the Eagle thing is annoying because it's a very superficial criticism. There's a weapons-grade amount of reasons for that not to happen (which I won't go into detail here because there's a LOTR thread for that).

It's kind of like people complaining that the White Walkers have no reason to be taking this long to attack the Wall (they evidently do).

The Others taking so long is easy to explain. They can't attack the Wall directly (without a dragon or someone bringing it down) so they never actually march on it.

@Gaon

The book-lore is with you, young Gaon....but you are not a Book-Walker yet.(you still gotta read Dunk and Egg and the sample TWOW chapters)

edited 10th Oct '17 2:15:59 PM by MadSkillz

Apropos Dunk and Egg: Anyone else wondering in what way Dunk's apparently Brienne's ancestor? I mean, he obviously never married as A Song of Ice and Fire explicitly tells you that not only did he become a member of the Kingsguard, but he actually was the Lord Commander.

Maybe he had a bastard daughter who somehow managed to marry into House Tarth?

It's one thing I've been wondering since I re-read Dunk and Egg. I mean, GRMM did want to write more of it at some point, but he put it on the backburner for ASoIaF, so I'm mostly speculating right now.

edited 10th Oct '17 2:54:40 PM by DrunkenNordmann

The popular theory is that Dunk impregnated one of Aegon's sisters who was then promptly married to Lord Tarth meaning that Brienne and Selwyn aren't actual Tarths.

Sons of the dragon came out today btw. I'm reading it now. It's about 40 pages on Aegon the Conqueror's two sons, King Aenys and King Maegor.

Note: Aenys is Aegon and Rhaenys' son and Maegor is Aegon and Visenya's son.

Interesting stuff so far:

So the Prince of Dragonstone title started off as an informal title for Maegor.

Also the Red Keep was named by the commoners.

Visenya also put a blade in 3 year old Maegor's hands who then used it to butcher a castle cat. (Joffrey parallels) And Maegor learned to fight from Ser Gawen Corbray. (Maegor was obviously great at it.)

Aenys learned to fight from Aegon and the KG but he lacked the strength and size of Aegon so only he proved to be an adequate fighter even with Blackfyre in his hand. He'd never embarrass himself but no one would find him amazing.

Other interesting stuff:

-Lord Alyn Stokeworth and Queen Visenya designed King's Landing.

-It's rumored that Aegon gave the job to Visenya so she would leave him alone on Dragonstone.

-Aegon wanted closer ties so Oldtown and the High Septon was a Hightower that seemed so want to make a power play so they married the High Septon's niece to Maegor.

-Visenya wanted Maegor to marry Aenys' firstborn daughter to their claims could be united.

-Reference to the Comte de Provence(King Louis XVI). Maegor boasted that he had consummated the marriage a dozen times that night.

-Maegor gave the eulogy at King Aegon's funeral.

-Aenys presented Blackfyre to Maegor saying that it was better for his hands and they were meant to rule together.

-Visenya is purported to have whispered"The truth is plain enough. Even Aenys sees it. Why else would he have given Blackfyre to my son? He knows that only Maegor has the strength to rule."

-Harren the Red's Rebellion for the Riverlands, Lord Jonos Arryn declaring himself king of the Vale, Todos the Twice-Drowned's rebellion and the Vulture king starting a proxy war between Dorne(Deria Martell pretended to denounce him but she was likely sending them men and supplies and never tried to stop him) and Westeros all happened at the same time.

edited 10th Oct '17 7:06:48 PM by MadSkillz

-Yeah, okay. Aenys is basically a slightly stronger version of Tytos Lannister except Aenys had the benefit of having a lot of competent people around him.

-Maegor is an almagation of Jaime Lannister, Joffrey Baratheon and Stannis Baratheon.

-When Aenys exiled Maegor for 5 years, he asked for Blackfyre back and Maegor denied him.

-It's likely that Visenya poisoned Aenys.

-Maegor constructed the dragonpit.

-Maegor took turns trying to impregnate his first three wives. Then after he got rid of them, he had a triple wedding with Rhaena Targaryen, Jeyne Westerling and Elinor Costayne.

-His new three wives were all the wives of people he killed, Aegon Targaryen, Lord Alyn Tarbeck & Theo Boiling.

-His 3 new wives were known as Black Brides due to all of them being widows.

-Rumor has it that Rhaena tried to kill Maegor with a knife she hid in a pillow right before he tried to couple with her.

-Maegor named his new wife's oldest daughter, Aerea Targaryen, as his lawful heir until he had a son. He disinherited Jaehaerys.

- Maegor was likely killed by the KG(praetorian guard-style) or his wife,Elinor Costayne(to avenge her husband's death), or he killed himself. Those are three big possibilities that it presents.

(It was probably the KG or Elinor though but I'm leaning towards the KG)

Maegor was found with his arms slashed open on the Iron Throne, right?

I thought he had his throat impaled, actually.

Nope, wrists slashed open, according to the Wiki, after some of his other family members were getting ready to rebel against him.

edited 11th Oct '17 4:07:00 PM by theLibrarian

I was watching the Dance of Dragons video, and that just make me remind something.

I freaking love The Shepherd. He was a religious fanatic? Probably.

And he managed to get a angry mob to kill freaking dragons. A angry mob of King`s landing. Killing Dragons.

I love that guy.

Also, as much as I love the extremely weird theory of the Eldritch Apocalypse theory of Poor Quentyn, I dont want think that he was related with any eldritch horror.

I love the idea of the priest convencing people to kill dragons, because as much as cool they can be, lets be honest. Dragons should be either kept away for humans, or being anhilated.

And I am a guy that loves sobrenatural stuff and dislike human superiority on fantasy, so that is saying a lot.

edited 13th Oct '17 8:09:05 PM by KazuyaProta

Yeah, an angry mob killing a bunch of restrained, immobile, caged-up dragons. So brave. So powerful.

I pretty often see it called one of the stupidest things to have been written in the series whenever it gets brought up on other sites.

Stupidest thing written in the series is Khal Drogo melting gold in a fucking fireplace within 12 seconds. Second stupidest is the entirety of Quentyn Martell's subplot.

I do like the Shepherd. It's an intriguing idea that this nameless, completely random guy shows up out of the abject nowhere and ends up changing the fate of Westeros forever within the course of one night, only then to vanish from the history books, never to return.

Of course, he was targeting chained dragons, but it's made pretty clear they could still bite, claw and spit fire even chained (their chief problem being flying), so it's not like they were wholly defenseless.

Yeah, I mean that, the fire is the biggest issue, even if they cant fly, the dragons can perfectly burn you.

Plus, is one of the few times (if not the only) where the smallfolk have make a actual impact.

edited 14th Oct '17 7:59:37 PM by KazuyaProta

Excluding the dragon that could still fly they somehow killed and the one that got loose and crashed into the ceiling.

edited 14th Oct '17 8:01:52 PM by doineedaname

I mean, I know that is very unplausible and suicidal, but that the point, the smallfolk was fucking tired of dragons, they look cool but they are monsters that are better gone.

And they somehow did it.

I dont care if it was plausible or not. The smallfolk did it. The smallfolk did something.

Not if you choose to believe people's theories of it being a Maester or Faceless Men behind it or those actually turn out to be right.

edited 14th Oct '17 8:38:43 PM by doineedaname

That is why I dislike those theories

Nah, I just want to believe that simply, some people got angry and decided end all of the dragon stuff for once.

Now, we only need the Targaryen genocide and we can move on.

The one bit I don't like is the fully airborne dragon they somehow manage to kill afterwards, But Dragonpit is fine. Hobb the Hewer and his seven deadly strikes plus the Burning Knight's fiery charge, make up for quite the tale.

I'd love to see that in live-action.

edited 15th Oct '17 7:15:23 AM by Gaon

I don't see what's wrong with the airborne dragon dying.

Plenty of archers crossbowmen were shooting at her.

A crossbolt hit the dragon in the eye which caused her to crash into the Dragonpit bringing it all down on them. Don't see anything controversial there.

The dragon that brought down the pit was Dreamfyre, who had managed to get free of her chains and flew around inside until getting shot in one eye. They killed a second flying dragon after, Syrax who was released from the Red Keep by Prince Joffrey (who tried and failed to ride her) and flew over to the collapsed Dragonpit where she started killing people and somehow managed to get killed in an unspecified manner.