A Song Of Ice And Fire

The illustrations reminded me of the artstyle of Mart Twain's books.

Wait, that means that Dunk has his first time with Old Nan.

Am currently rereading ACOK. I can't help but think, as I go through Davos' chapters, that he and Stannis should have listened to Sallador Saan. If they'd sailed on King's Landing before, or shortly after Tyrion arrived, they probably could have taken the capital. Stannis only had 3000 or so men, but almost all of them were knights or experienced mercenaries, easily a match for the City Watch. With the Lyseni and Myrish pirate fleets at their command they likely could have done what Saan suggested, and sailed into the city, made landfall, and taken the Red Keep.

Now, that would have left them, as Davos notes, surrounded by enemies on all sides, but I don't know how bad that really would have been for them. Robb would probably have made peace, and they still could have used Melisandre for a decapitation strike on Tywin or Renly's armies once they got close enough.

yeah, if Stannis moved his navy immediately after getting word Robert was dead, it would have been a much different story. That could change if Ned got executed or not.

Stannis would've won the war if he had listened to Davos to go straight for Kl after Renly's army had switched to him instead of spending time besieging Storm' End.

The chain wouldn't be finished on time and the Tyrell alliance wouldn't have been concluded.

Potentially Stannis gets there before Myrcella is shipped off so he kills all of Cersei's kids in one blow and Tywin gives up as he no longer has anyone to claim the throne.

It's actually really frustrating how close it all really was.

he could have had it allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

That would have worked too. With King's Landing taken and Cersei and her children dead or captured, Tywin would almost have to make peace—and if he didn't, well, there's always the possibility of using one of Mel's shadowbabies to eliminate him. Mace Tyrell would never keep fighting without another Great House in back of him, and Robb has no real quarrel with Stannis.

But no, Stannis had to get all hung up on taking Storm's End.

I don't know. Tywin doesn't really care about his family, but they are "his" family.

I'd tend to think he'd go on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge if his grandchildren or children were killed.

I'm sure Stannis would execute Tommen and Myrcella, but it would be a lot smarter (and you know, more moral) to just imprison them.

Whether they'd be executed would probably depend on if he listened to Melisandre or Davos. Though admittedly this is one case where Mel might not care. No king's blood for the burning after all.

Oh, and a page or so back, when people were talking about what other stories they'd like Martin to do? The story of the Night's King, the Lord-Commander of the Night's Watch who married an other and enslaved the Watch. It supposedly took the King in the North and the King-Beyond-The-Wall to bring him down, and that's a team-up I really want to see.

Kind of depends on whether non-Targ King's blood would work. The Lannisters used to be kings after all.

Why would Stannis listen to Melisandre and kill the younger Baratheon children? Execute the one among them that actually has the temerity to call himself king, keep Tommen and Myrcella as hostages against reprisals by Tywin.

Now that I think about it, it would be smarter for Stannis to go Richard III and keep Tommen and Myrcella prisoner.

It was less about Storm's End and more about Mel telling Stannis needed Edric Storm but he doesn't really know why. He does give several justifications why it's a good idea though.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:50:03 PM by MadSkillz

Keeping Tommen and Myrcella alive would mean that any potential Lannister supporters would have people to rally around.

@doineedaname

I'm curious as to whether the whole "king's blood" thing is really supposed to work or not, and if so, how it goes about identifying itself. Mel seemed to think that Mance's blood would work after all, despite him being of very, very low birth.

It's not like Mel had to push very hard there though, what with Stannis' longstanding grievances over Storm's End.

Did she really think Mance would work? His death was faked so I just kind of assumed she thought it wouldn't.

He's technically a king? Though she's ignorant of wildling culture in that Mance only became King-Beyond-The-Wall due to forcing all of the tribes to work together, while constantly having to deal with all of the squabbles. The wildlings may treat themselves as superior to southron peoples, but when Mormont can correctly assume that the wildlings will scatter if Mance is taken out of the picture they become little more than the savages that they really are.

They still feel the need to hide his son from her.

Hey, "technically a king" is pretty unfair to Mance. The man singlehandedly welded together a massive confederation of tribes who traditionally hate each other and instilled enough discipline in them that they stood a serious chance of taking the Wall. He's also one of the few rulers in the setting to be genuinely motivated by the welfare of his people, rather than power or prestige. One could make a pretty compelling argument that he's the best king in the series—I'd certainly follow him before I'd follow most of the contenders for the Iron Throne.

As for the king's blood thing, I can't help but feel Mel's talking out of her ass there.

Hey, it worked on MMD. She's (to our knowledge) not royalty and sacrificing her worked. Mel is probably just mistaken.

Dany sacrificed Khal Drogo at the same time though. And khal means king.

If her dragons are Lightbringer then Drogo was her Nissa Nissa.

edited 11th Oct '15 11:56:58 PM by MadSkillz

I keep forgetting Drogo's not dead. It also shows MMD's sacrifice was even less necessary.

Your second statment is true, as well. Personally I think a lot of fans put too much stock in prophecy, looking for a literal version of it. A lot of characters get themselves into trouble doing the exact same thing.

No wait, I just remembered that Daenerys smothered Drogo to death with a pillow beforehand. I suppose he doesn't need to be alive for his kingsblood to do work.

But the HOTU vision implies that it was MMZ's life that was used to hatch the dragons.

Told you it was MMD.

As for "king's blood", what defines a king aside from their title? So I doubt king's blood has any special properties beyond what is being assigned to it by the views on the person using magic, and their culture.

Dany managed to use magic without really knowing how it works. It was also blood and fire magic without invoking R'hllor, which makes me think the gods themselves do not exist, but the magic associated with them does. I doubt the Others know how this "Great Other" is.

edited 12th Oct '15 3:36:54 AM by SilentColossus

I dunno, Varys did say that when they burned his junk a voice answered from the flames.

And Thoros also said a few prayers for his friend and it accidentally revived him for a purpose, I think.

saying there isn't power in king's blood is fair to some extent, saying magic/the gods aren't real is not considering (as Mad mentioned) Beric, but add Stoneheart, Orell's eagle combusting, Mance's glamour, the skin changing/warging, children of the forest, and Mel's own admission that her magic was stronger at the wall and that she does resort to science/theatrics makes the presence of the magic a certainty imo

I don't think anybody has said that magic isn't real. Unless I've missed something in someone's post, all we've done is doubt the king's blood thing.

This is, after all, a series that rather enjoys pointing out that there's nothing particularly special about kings, so the king's blood thing working would be rather strange. I mean really, what defines a king aside from holding a title? And what about that puts more magic into their blood than into a normal person's.

I'll note, by the way, that if we define a king in terms of care/concern for their people, and living up to their duties to said people, Mance's blood would probably work better than that of 90 percent of Westerosi kings and claimants, low-birth be damned.

edited 12th Oct '15 11:17:59 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

https://m.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3pcvtw/spoilers_all_the_life_and_deaths_of_qyburn_drumm/

Wow this is a really good theory on Qyburn being an ironborn and a Drumm.