The Strange Case of the Missing Ads

"Pages marked NSFG cannot be viewed without registration and/or opt-in."

Wait, where was this said? If those pages don't even have Google ads, why do they care who watches them?

The whole "pages with Google Ads can't link to pages with NSFW content" thing.

Um. Surely that does for the gate, as well?

Al SO: Eddie, you said that you wouldn't be implementing accounts with e-mail addresses? If so, why not?

edited 28th Oct '10 8:01:43 AM by EthZee

It's implied by the "no linking to pages that contain adult content" part of the rules. If we're going to wall off the NSFG part of the site, there must be an actual, you know, wall there.

If you Get Known and indicate your preference to view adult content, then the wall will be transparent to you; you can click through the site without interference. If you do not Get Known or do not opt in, you will be redirected to a warning page telling you that you are visiting a portion of the site that contains mature content.

Not sure on that last point. It seems that requiring email registration is a necessary step to keep tropers minimally honest. Every site that I've ever seen that doesn't use email registration uses premoderation, and I don't think we need to have mods vetting every submitted edit to the site.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:04:00 AM by Fighteer

Accounts will be required. No email will be needed to get an account.

We all need to calm down.

For a start, accusing Google of censorship is unnecessarily inflammatory and factually incorrect. Making allegations like that sets a hostile tone that will only make things more difficult.

I am confident that Fast Eddie and the staff will be able to negotiate terms acceptable to both parties. Although poor Eddie will almost certainly gain a few grey hairs in the process.

Google are a bunch of Silicon Valley nerds, they're not the uptight sort. They just need to cover their ass against the Moral Guardians and Culture Police making absurd claims like "Google financially supports known pornographers" and such nonsense.

We all know that sort of mudslinging happens routinely and can be expensive in terms of lost revenue and PR. Google are only acting in their interest and they don't have it in for us. If we can find a way to do our business that doesn't expose them to unnecessary risk, I'm sure we can all get through this with a minimum of disruption. We all need to calm down.

For a start, accusing Google of censorship is unnecessarily inflammatory and factually incorrect. Making allegations like that sets a hostile tone that will only make things more difficult.

I am confident that Fast Eddie and the staff will be able to negotiate terms acceptable to both parties. Although poor Eddie will almost certainly gain a few grey hairs in the process.

Google are a bunch of Silicon Valley nerds, they're not the uptight sort. They just need to cover their ass against the Moral Guardians and Culture Police making absurd claims like "Google financially supports known pornographers" and such nonsense.

We all know that sort of mudslinging happens routinely and can be expensive in terms of lost revenue and PR. Google are only acting in their interest and they don't have it in for us. If we can find a way to do our business that doesn't expose them to unnecessary risk, I'm sure we can all get through this with a minimum of disruption.

*Changes avatar* Sorry about that.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:05:22 AM by occono

I have no problem with email registration. No True Troper would have a problem with it. ;P

But what about inbounds, and search results? If someone would run a Google search, for example, "Shoujo Sect tropes" (that is a hentai), they would still get to the work page, not?

Well, I can't give a finger to Finagle's Law, so I have to be content with the second best.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:10:46 AM by EternalSeptember

Email registration doesn't bother me either; it's a necessary part of registering for almost everything on the 'Net. I realize that we have a fair collection of quasi-anarchists on This Wiki who deeply resent the privacy intrusion of surrendering one's email address to a site, but I'm afraid that the Internet as a whole is incompatible with that principle; and anyway, you can always get throwaway addresses for cheap.

@September: They'd see a link to our page, sure (unless we disable Google from indexing it), but if they clicked on it it would give them the NSFG barrier page.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:10:08 AM by Fighteer

I've never really minded having an e-mail address. Also, it means that the account is easier to recover when/if you forget your password. (Rather than the alternative option of creating a new account and pestering Eddie on the forums).

Plus it opens up new options. Newsletters?

That would be quite awkward, if for visitors, even the other wiki would be more informal and informational about covering certain works than ours.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:15:54 AM by EternalSeptember

I'd just use a John Smith account. :V

The Other Wiki is not ad-supported by Google. We've been through this, stop griping and start helping find ways to productively assist.

I've been out since yesterday, what changes (if any) are being implemented at this time?

The first change that's going in is locking the site down so that only Known Tropers can make edits. Eddie's on that immediately. The segregation code is going to take a bit longer.

We're firing TV Tropes into the Sun.

The plan seems to be to institute a content wall for NSFG stuff; non-users can't click through, users can.

I don't know the technical part, but couldn't the whole site be copied to mediatropes, without the google ads? So it could still function there in its former glory, while the censored Tvtropes would get the ad money.

Is that all, so far?

I can live with that.

I would like to know if the forums will be affected, the answer was "not right now" last time I asked.

^^ And mediatropes wouldn't bankrupt the site inside of a week....how, exactly?

The forums will be in the NSFW zone.

Ok, I didn't think this through.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:24:50 AM by EternalSeptember

That works.

That's confirmed?

edited 28th Oct '10 8:25:44 AM by SpainSun

At least are we allowed to write an informal, sarcastic, snarky NSFW warning between the two zones?

The forums are already restricted to Known Tropers, so the wiki lockdown affects us here not at all. We are not going to run Google Ads on the forums anymore, period, because we can't guarantee the "safety" of that content.

If additional steps are required at some point to Get Known, such as email registration (which Eddie has said is not immediately going to happen), then you would be required to reregister to use the fora or the wiki, but that's something that is definitely in the future if it happens at all. (You may be required to explicitly opt-in to the NSFG portions of the site.)

The most likely step after that is the implementation of the NSFG walled area, with a page flag that can be set by any moderator, and content reporting buttons on each article. Certain existing articles will be flagged NSFG by default, such as anything related to Hentai, PWP, and similar subjects.

We can be snarky, but let us avoid being intentionally insulting to Google. Biting the hand that feeds us may feel cathartic, but it's ultimately counterproductive.

Long-term, we may be able to build up enough cred with other ad servers that they could replace Google entirely, but I'm not going to be holding my breath in that regard. Anyway, implementing safe vs. adult portions of the site is something that doesn't really bother me from an ethical perspective and there's no real need to remove it once it's up.

edited 28th Oct '10 8:28:44 AM by Fighteer

So basically, a wall, but we lose nothing.

Man, you guys are awesome.

How does the email registry affect Known Tropers? Just curious.

I hope Google really accepts that, all of this is based on Eddie's 302 post, that began with "I think".

How does the email registry affect Known Tropers? Just curious.

If it happens, which is a big "if", since Eddie has said he doesn't want to do it, every account would be required to reregister with an email address. I don't think grandfathering them would work from a security perspective.