Sexuality

Sort of speaks for itself, but in case it doesn't...

Something is bothering me about sexuality and fetishes and whatnot. Basically, why is it that everyone seems to get so pissed off at the thought that other people are attracted to strange things.

I mean, sexuality isn't a choice people. That's not something you can debate; you can't decide how you're psyche works. Changing your sexuality would require you to completely change the way you think of certain things!

It's like trying to convince yourself that your monitor is the most terrifying thing you've ever seen, and more accurately it's no more attainable than convincing yourself that something IS sexually attractive. If people could do that, we'd have a lot less difficulty with romance in the world. Maybe you've seen some annoying reality show called 'Dating in the Dark'? No matter how hard you try, sometimes you just can't get over that barrier.

I mean, nobody chooses to be heterosexual! Nobody can STOP being heterosexual! It's hard enough to combat sexual urges, and extinguishing them is a few dozen tiers above. -coughchastitycough-

So why are so many people blatantly self-righteous about this stuff? You know what I mean, they're not all trolls. In fact, a fair few people on this very site are less-than-tolerant about the desires of others, and the denizens here are nothing if not open-minded.

Your opinions/horrid, offensive insults?

Be humane.

Some people simply lack the social and mental ability to understand that other folks may have preferences, desires, and values different from their own.

—R.J.

What I don't get is, even if it is a choice, so the fuck what?

Everybody likes to think they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Of course.

But only some people have ego trips that involve enforcing that.

And only some other people have religious beliefs that amount to "OMG I DESPERATELY NEED TO SAVE YOU FROM GOING TO HELL BY MAKING YOU STOP DOING [X]".

Some people not only get off on strange things, but go to great lengths to indulge their own strange things and their partner's strange things, so that people spend hours per week pleasing their wife/husband in bed. That cannot be natural and must be banned before my own wife/husband starts expecting me to put that much effort in.

Strawman mode Off.

@Glenn More and more, it would seem.

Too bad our society works in such a way that if enough people point a finger and say "1+1=1782" it becomes "true". I mean... power by the majority is one thing, but value system by the majority? Come on. It's like people just don't like thinking for themselves.

Personally i try to respect people's sexuality, for some reason that's one of the things i'm most tolerant about. Anything that's not a choice must not be judged (not that i'm sure if anything should be judged at all).

There's a catch though - for one, there are people who are honestly gay/bi/whatever and are just trying to deal the world's views on that and find someone to love. There are however also the posh-attention-whorish douchebags who parade with their "nonconforming sexual orientation" for the sake of something else. I find those unworthy of even spitting on.

Well, the cure to that is to help make the world less judgmental about sexuality — then they'd go find something else stupid and "edgy" to do and fuck off.

A brighter future for a darker age.

The problem is human nature.

People like to feel good about themselves. To this end, they exhibit one or more of the following behaviors:

• Trying to stand out from a crowd when they want to get more attention.
• Trying to blend in with a crowd when they want other people to accept them, or when they don't want unwanted attention.
• Declaring other people to be worse than themselves, in order to make themselves feel better.
• Trying to cultivate a sense of accomplishment in doing something directed at said "others", usually by exerting some amount of control over them, including:
  • social and/or physical violence against the "others"
  • convincing the "others" that one's viewpoints and/or beliefs are better

Note that the "other-designating" behavior happens in any group of sufficient size, as well as any time a group has to compete for a goal.

(Incidentally, the "other-designating" is why communism doesn't work.)

Sexuality is just one means of doing several of these things:

• calling attention to oneself ("Have I mentioned that I'm asexual/transgendered/whatever today?")
• blending in with a crowd ("Everyone at my workplace is hetero; I need to find a boyfriend/girlfriend too" or "All the cool kids are saying they're asexual")
• designating "others" (calling people "faggots", "furries", "goatfuckers", and in some cases, even terms like "homophobes")
• padding one's sense of accomplishment ("I need to convince gay people to come back to being straight and follow Christ", etc., or various stories about bullying and violence)

As usual.

You could remove that first sentence ("The problem is human nature.") and not detract from the actual content of the post in any way. Quite the contrary, I think that's a "tacked on" assumption, and removing it might add credibility to the actual content (as empirical data).

edited 20th Nov '10 2:46:43 PM by Herbarius

If sexuality is not a choice, then the pedophiles are right that they really can't help themselves, huh? Well, sexual preferences really aren't 'choices' in that you don't consciously choose to be attracted to naked 3 year olds, but who cares? There are many ways you can be screwed up that have nothing to do with any choices you make, but there's no reason why anyone should feel obliged to humor or respect your disturbing fantasies.

They can't. Pedophiles are practically incurable.

edited 20th Nov '10 10:42:08 PM by KingZeal

Yep. Pedophiles can't help themselves.

CHILD MOLESTERS on the other hand...

Perhaps one of the reasons is that sexuality, as an instinct, develops relatively late. You get to grow up for 10 years or more wondering what's up with that whole "boys and girls" thing all the adults are going nuts about, then in a relatively short time you end up feeling a strong attraction to something that was pretty much entirely worthless to you.

That's disconcerting, and actually pretty damn scary: one gets used to one's mind working in a certain way, and then it goes and starts behaving differently.

Add to that the societal taboos, some of whom exist for a reason and some of whom are relics of older times, and the fact that no one will give you a straight answer with respect to which is which, and it is not surprising that a lot of people get a bit strange about the issue.

edited 21st Nov '10 10:45:39 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

The distinction with child molesters is this little thing called Consent. Consent is a magical thing, it can turn theft into charity, it can turn an assault causing actual bodily harm into a healthy sporting activity and it can turn rape into a wonderful experience for both participants.

As it happens, children cannot consent.

Not even if they're really 600 years old?

Sorry, I should have specified we were discussing reality.

When a 600 year old child is found it will have a profound impact on a great many laws. Likewise when a beagle stands up and says in perfect English "I do not consent to your medical experiments"

Based on what we have now, there are no 600 year old children.

No, the distinction is inclination versus act. A pedophile is merely someone who is sexually attracted to children - that is a terrible condition, since at the moment we have no reliable way of modifying sexual inclinations, but it is not culpable in itself.

However, a child molester is a different thing: sexual inclinations can be resisted, and chastity is possible, and if someone feels that they really cannot help themselves should get themselves recovered before risking harming a little kid.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I know, it's just that it tends to cloud people's thinking when they go from Sex with Children = Child Molestation, depictions of Sex with Children = Child Pornography, Loli = Child Pornography or whatever, ignoring that the problem with Child Pornography is how it violates the rights of those who are incapable of consenting, not that it's inherently sinful or something.

But I guess that's probably off-topic huh...

^ Well, "Chastity is possible" would be a response to homosexuality too, so the issue of "Can grant consent" is pretty important.

edited 21st Nov '10 11:47:29 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

Inclination vs Act has been used for centuries to argue that banning gay sex is not homophobic. Be careful there.

Some expressions of sexuality do disturb me (guro, for instance, does not fill me with joy). I find foot fetishism oddly disturbing, too, despite the fact I watched Two Girls One Cup and One Guy One Jar without flinching. That last one's definitely more of an irrational thing.

While I can't exactly help my reaction to it, and I'm not gonna try and train myself into finding these expressions of sexuality 'normal' (for me), I'm also not going to judge people based on their porn or their fantasies, but only on what they do, and whether it harms others or infringes on their rights.

Vid related.

edited 21st Nov '10 11:50:05 AM by mmysqueeant

Well, Michael, there's also the problem of mental development vs physical development. The two are not always the same, and both develop at vastly different times from person to person. Current age of consent laws are meant to be a golden mean which designate when the average person should be reasonable and responsible enough to understand the consequences of their actions. Of course, this is not always the case, and my own country (America) can't make up its mind. While 18 is generally accepted as the Age Of Consent, some states go as low as 16. (Refer to this chart for specifics.◊)

edited 21st Nov '10 11:50:25 AM by KingZeal

Nonetheless, I think that it is applicable to this case: if chastity was truly impossible, then all pedophiles should be locked up as soon as they are identified - not because of any culpability, but because they cannot help themselves and they will end up hurting someone sooner or later.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Last time I checked 16 was the most common American Age of Consent. Of course it's only our best guess, the age at which you can live your own life, be it signing a contract or consummating a relationship. Nonetheless, the claim that allowing a masochist to consent to a spanking for their own enjoyment is going to encourage people to have nonconsensual sex with children just doesn't follow any form of logic.