Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality

He'd been reading Muggle physics books.

edited 16th Feb '15 2:29:27 PM by Vericrat

The one in space can still work if A:Horcruxs work on aliens or B:The aliens can make a human being that can be possessed by it. So far horcruxs seem to work as he said as we have Lord Voldemort vs "David Monroe" in the wizarding war and Harry is also Voldemort.

Even if your points A and/or B are correct, still :

A : Space is vast, and it is extremely improbable that the Pioneer spacecraft will end up on a planet with sentient/intelligent aliens. (Unless Quirellmort is governing its course somehow, but that would require him to know the location of other intelligent species in the universe.)

B : Even if the Pioneer Horcrux ends up with intelligent aliens, the new version of Quirell it would create would be in their planet, far, far away from earth.

edited 16th Feb '15 3:17:55 PM by ganiyel

When he was doing the stargazing spell, weren't they seeing space from the POV of his horcrux? So there must be some sort of connection.

B is even referenced in Methods, when Quirrel talks about dreaming for a long time. I don't beleive he considers it a flaw. The Pioneer horcrux is to keep him alive if the Earth is destroyed by muggles.

edited 16th Feb '15 5:25:34 PM by crazysamaritan

New chapter is out and more theories confirmed.

It does (seemingly) confirm that the power of the Philosopher's Stone is to make transfiguration permanent. What other theories does it confirm? Well, that Quirell is in some way identical to Voldemort, but that was a given anyway.

Hmm. I hadn't thought of that. I do remember now that Quirell talked about escaping the earth when "this flawed world seems especially hateful" or some such.

I laughed when Harry dropped the line about the Philosopher's Stone allowing human transfiguration .

Using Parseltongue as a lie-proof language seems a little too convenient, though, and Quirrelmort seems to be using it a little too freely. Has he perhaps found a way to circumvent the effects? Though it's true that he didn't commit to anything that would inconvenience him too greatly.

So it turns out that Quirrelmort does desperately need Harry to get the Stone for him (following the general idea in canon, Dumbledore might have set some kind of "pure of heart" mechanism on the Mirror or something, though it's hard to guess more specifics of the mechanism if it differs from the canon version)...or at least, that's what he wants Harry to think. But yes, it doesn't really explain why didn't choose a more inconspicuous person to use as his innocent pawn. As well as why he waited a whole year to do it, unless he felt it would be the amount of time needed to win Harry's trust.

edited 16th Feb '15 6:32:03 PM by ashnazg

It probably wasn't a year long plot to get Harry to trust him. Him being a successful horcrux probably didn't even matter as long as destroyed all but a remnant of the original Harry. Seeing the success and failures put new options on the table and he came up with some new plots.

Maybe he specifically needs the help of an innocent version of himself for some reason? Anyway, this definitely raises more questions then it answers.

Going up against a smart villian is scary. It's like he's prepared against everything on the check list and then some. Here's what's up, what are you going to do about it?

Well, all we know is that Parseltongue doesn't allow one to speak false facts (or at least, facts the speaker believes to be false). A promise (commitment about a future action) isn't a fact. Maybe Parseltongue would forbid "At present, it is my sincere intention to do X in future" but not "I promise to do X in future", as the former is a fact about the speaker's current state of mind, but the latter isn't (at least not directly).

In canon, getting the Stone out of the Mirror of Erised would require one to desire to obtain it, without using it. That wouldn't be the case for Harry I-want-immortality-for-everyone James Potter-Evans-Verres. But then again, we don't know how much, and where, this part of MOR differs from canon.

edited 16th Feb '15 6:50:43 PM by ganiyel

He's just going to use Theo Nott and co for that part. Harry is obviously required for something else.

Yeah, I was kind of wondering along the lines of Kavka's toxin paradox when Quirrelmort started making all those promises. I wouldn't put it past this fic to reference philosophical problems of that nature...

edited 16th Feb '15 7:50:31 PM by ashnazg

My first thoughts after the scene in the middle of the chapter:

Holy shit, we've been reading a Fullmetal Alchemist fanfic this entire time!

edited 16th Feb '15 7:59:47 PM by Unknownlight

Didn't hear of Kavka's toxin puzzle before. I agree that this fic may well be referring to something along these lines.

Totally forgot about Theo Nott and co. Indeed, Theo explicitly says he doesn't intend to use the Stone himself, just to prevent it being used for evil.

I suppose one way out of the toxin puzzle is to precommit to valuing your word over the cost of drinking the poison, such that you'll do it even after getting the money out of honor.

It's pretty similar to Newcomb's Paradox since it relies on an omniscient ability to read your own mind. You could just say that's impossible and call it a day I guess.

edited 16th Feb '15 9:24:34 PM by storyyeller

Incidentally, Quirellmort's description of how a Horcrux works (in ch 102) was entirely in Parseltongue. So if one cannot lie (at least about facts) in Parseltongue, then...

Yep, that's one theory jossed.

By the way, if you look into the story's description on fan fiction.net you'll notice a change.

Don't know if it's a good idea though. Wouldn't want to spoiler new readers.

What was the change?

The main characters are now: Hermione G., Tom R. Jr.

So does anybody have a guess what Voldemort is trying to do here? Obviously not just get the stone, there are easier ways to get Harry's help on that. All he'd have had to do was tell Harry that it exists and works as advertised. No need for the whole commotion just now.

I really think Harry should've asked QM to verify, in parseltongue, that making a promise in parseltongue is a good way to ensure it will be followed.

Also, now that we know the "can't lie in snaketalk" thing it true, we know that the claim in http://hpmor.com/chapter/58 that QM intends for Harry to rule "the country" is true. Also, he really did never intend to kill that Auror.

That's not strictly true. Most of that conversation was phrased in an "even if I was" condition, making it suppositional, instead of straightforward.

That's not Pet the Dog, it's common sense. Killing him would have been stupid.

I think it's about as trustworthy as QM promising not to kill anyone for a week. As in, if he can lie about his plans "then", he can do it "now."

True.