During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I just finished Breakfast of the Gods and after re-reading Ravok's EP, I give a firm ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Chocula.
Their recap is very accurate and Sogmaster only appears in a few pages on top of having a sympathetic goal, it's not a stretch to say that Chocula is worse.
I don't want to sound like a Professional Butt-Kisser but Ravok's E Ps for the works I'm familiar with (Legion, Locke and Keys, Tron Uprising and Jessica Jones come to mind) are accurate and the accusation of them deliberately overselling their candidates are unfair considering they have been vocal when they thought a character didn't count or had to be cut.
edited 22nd Jul '17 11:31:17 AM by Silverblade2
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
As for the Adventure Time question, I imagine we'd go with the time most people would have been able to see the show. Scraggle's reserved it, so I think they have the best idea when the discussion should take place.
Lizzid people!
I honestly thought Adventure Time ended already.
I honestly think most people would sail the seven seas and/or buy the early release, so if I were Scraggle I'd lean towards the earlier discussion. Up to them what they do, though.
It's ending very soon, the next season is the last one. Which is sad, we got an excellent and quite iconic antagonist out of it.
All things need to end. Otherwise you get the mess of the simpsons
Lizzid people!
Yeah, though by the time the show was in its seventh season, I lost interest in it. I'm not saying that the show was too serious in its later seasons (as the Lich is one of my favorite villains even though he has a very simple goal), but it just didn't feel like the wacky, surreal show that I used to like.
edited 22nd Jul '17 10:17:01 AM by AustinDR
Other sites have no bearing on what we do here.
It doesn't matter what happens on another wiki, that's not a compelling reason to add them. We just discussed Clifford and agreed he didn't count. As for Nick, he's already listed on the Literature page and as far as I know the film version isn't different enough to justify a separate entry.
edited 22nd Jul '17 10:31:50 AM by TommyFresh
Lizzid people!
Speaking of which, Old Nick was removed from the YMMV page for Room.
Villains Wiki is a great site and all and I'm sure many tropers go on there (Including myself) but they have no instinct on this site. Please do not suggest examples from that site. They changed their definition and wording for a good reason.
Lizzid people!
OK, I happen to be an admin on that site, so I'm slightly offended by that. But, yeah, the VW has nothing to do with TV Tropes;
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I read a manga who had a good candidate, the issue? That manga dont have a page here.
That is a shame.
Watch me destroying my country
If you can be bothered, you can make the page; that's what I did for The Five and DDD does it a lot.
Lizzid people!
What's the manga?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Or just effortpost anyway. We have PLENTY of entries from works that don't currently have a page (hell, later TODAY I'm gonna effortpost from a work without a page).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not having a work page isn't an issue at all, we have quite a few examples listed from works that don't have pages yet. I say go for it.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You know what, I'll just effortpost Kreeg tomorrow morning.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Villain Wiki may be a different site, but it has given me ideas for works to look up and characters to propose, that site does pick some good candidates sometimes.
For me, looking for candidates is a matter of waiting for my discussion dates (for which I have quite a while) and spending my free time seeing whatever game or movie might have on my free time. Currently the possible candiates I have found are a little "eeh" in my book.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Question. Can documentaries have Complete Monsters?
Not if they're literally a real person. Fictional versions of real people are okay though.
Foreign Troper
Picking up on the Apocalypse discussion, we could probably settle by putting a 'Depending on the writer' note on the X-page in general. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if at some point some writer wrote Donald Pierce as a Well-Intentioned Extremist or something of the sort.
edited 22nd Jul '17 2:29:04 PM by Forenperser
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW Lighty, didn't you say you had an update on Uber?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@ Ambar Sonof Deshar, yeah, I would argue some comic book villains are just more consistently written then others, I have never seen Red Skull or Bullseye ever get a redeeming quality in the comics.