During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ga'ran ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Roger.
Yea to the former, will reflect on the latter.
The first monster:
Now, from Richard Laymon's novel, The Lake, I'm proposing the novel's main villain: Serial Killer Mace Harrison, also known as The Candyman.
Who Is Mace? What's He Done?
Mace Harrison is a policeman. His real name is Jess Payne, changed after he was given to another family by his mother after his father tried to murder Mace's baby sister due to a weird trait of the Payne family; having dark black hair. Payne Sr. was stopped, and the girl was later given away as well, leaving Payne senior with her weak son Charlie. During a vacation at a lakehouse, Charlie had a romance with a young woman named Leigh and died in an accident, leaving Leigh pregnant with a girl named Deana. When Deana is an adult....
Mace is attempting to hunt down his baby sister and finish his father's work, using Leigh and deana as both leads and considering them unfinished business for the family...to satisfy his urges in other ways, Mace moonlights as The Candyman, a serial killer who manipulates black haired women into letting him photograph them in a 'photoshoop' only to brutally murder them and mutilate their bodies in 'artistic' ways. The novel opens with him doing this to a prostitute. We see him murder multiple other villains this way, and we later see a creepy souvenir of his victims: enough to fill a large scrapbook.
Now, sleeping with Leigh, Mace also begins getting...creepy and abusive with her, as well as making creepy passes at the teenage Deana, until he kidnaps Deana, abuses and plans to murder her. Snapping photos of Deana in her vulnerable state, Mace goes after Leigh and murders two police officers protecting her. He then tries to murder Leigh, along with his long-lost sister Tania, who has realized who the Candyman is. At the Lakehouse where his brother died, Mace fights with the heroes, and Tania manages to get the better of him, knocking him back and sending him plummeting through a hole in the floor in a long drop.
Heinous Standard?
Only villain of the novel.
Redeeming Qualities?
Not really. Mace worships his father's memory for the killer he was, and considers himself the heir of his work, rididng the world of "black haired whores"...but hates women himself well enough and given he never met his father, this is less caring about his old man and more just holding him as a Serial Killer ideal to live up to.
Freudian Excuse?
Nothing that holds up. He had a totally normal life, but kills because he enjoys it, and is devoted to murdering women and trying to kill Tania.
Conclusion?
Another Laymon keeper.
Lord of Hell
To Mace. Kind of reminds me of Mark Jefferson with the pictures thing.
But was there a typo, because you said he kills multiple other villains this way before you say he's the only villain in the novel. Did you mean to type victims?
Quick like...
to Ga'ran She's definitely beaten Manfred and Dahlia in the fight for top spot in terms of despicable Ace Attorney characters.
to Roger He might only have one death to his name, but his sheer devotion to getting fatal revenge on a teenage girl who did nothing to him solely because of her lineage, killing an innocent man in the process, is quite damning. Not to mention how obviously gleeful he is at the prospect of ruining the lives of everyone involved with the Wright Anything Agency. His rap sheet may not be long, but it's pretty clear that he's a total scumbag.
Ah. Victims. Yes. Sorry.
Two more to propose today, will do so in a few
Lizzid people!
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Mace Harrison.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Candyman. Do we ever find why his father hates black-haired females?
He sure has an anticlimactic death though:
Leigh gasped, “Oh my God!”
The hole. The one Charlie went through.
They watched Mace go, in a cloud of dust and splinters, his legs swinging around in the deep black void, his hands scrabbling, grasping at the soft rotted wood.
to Lord Marmoo (second CM for Keith David, after Thailog), Ace Attorney Candidate #1, and Mace Harrison.
to Johann Marisk and Ace Attorney Candidate #2.
to Mace Harrison.
"No" on Roger. You don't get on this list by only targeting one person, no matter how out of your way you might go to "ruin someone's life".
It's stated that no defense attorney won a case in 3 years after DCA was sworn in before they stopped appearing altogether. It's also stated that they have enslavement as a sentence This means that for three years straight, every attorney who presided over a case was imprisoned, subjected to enslavement, or executed.
for Guran.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Convinced me to change my vote to on him.
edited 16th Sep '16 3:31:19 PM by finalsurvivor1
Lord of Hell
To be fair, he was also aiming for everybody who worked at Wright and Co to lose their jobs (and Phoenix who has the agency as his home would become homeless) out of spite. But yeah, I don't think he's heinous enough.
edited 16th Sep '16 3:37:55 PM by Awesomekid42
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Engarde, a confirmed keep, only had one murder (Redd had his blackmail).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Mace
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Mace. Not AS bad as other Laymon baddies (Looking at you, Hoffman and Roy), but his bodycount + absolutely ridiculous reason for killing makes him stand out.
Also 'Yes' to Ga'ran and Marmoo. Keith David ROCKS that role, BTW.
edited 16th Sep '16 4:30:43 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Second villain...from the show Supergirl
Now, the show focuses on Superman's cousin, Kara Zor-El, who is the local, up and coming heroine of National City. By day, she's Kara Danvers, assistant to media mogul Cat Grant...and faces a variety of nasty villains, including several of her own Kryptonian kin....the worst of whom is the evil Coluan Brainiac 8, better known as Indigo.
Who Is She?
Indigo/Brainiac 8, was a Coluan, originally serving on Krypton like others of her kind...however, when she attempted to destroy all life on Krypton, she was arrested and sentenced to the Phantom Zone as punishment. When Krypton was destroyed, Indigo reached out to escape, finding the damaged spacecraft of young Kara Zor-El, one of the few other survivors and cousin to Kal-El himself. Rewriting her pod, Indigo rerouted it through space, where it would eventually end up on earth. Freed from Fort Rozz, Indigo took time to create a new body and began familiarizing herself with the internet...
What's She Done?
In her debut episode, Indigo initially appears as a human woman and a hacker who steals information off a website for cheaters. She sends it to Cat Grant, asking her to release it. When Cat (something of a Jerk with a Heart of Gold here) refuses), Indigo seizes control of National City's infrastructure and plays havoc with it, causing massive amounts of traffic accidents by turning every light green at once, just for one.
It turns out that Indigo was laying the groundwork for a broader scheme. The hacking was a distraction so she could hack a military installation and obtain nuclear launch codes. Working with Kara's Evil Uncle by marriage, Non (Who's pretty angry his wife Astra, Kara's mother's sister, is dead) Indigo wants to launch a nuclear missile at National city...then launch more missiles until nuclear fire consumes the world, leaving only the strong and Kryptonians left. Winn Schott, son of the Toyman, manages to stop Indigo while Kara stops the missiles by uploading a virus into her, causing her to break down. Non later repairs her...
Non and Astra initially started something called Project Myriad, a superweapon to place all of humanity in a trance stance. Indigo assists in the completion of Project Myriad, affecting all of National Ciy, and then some with even Superman falling prey to the trance state. Kara, one of the few left safe, attempts to free everyone...and making it even worse, Indigo captures Kara's human sister Alex Danvers and with Non, forces her to fight Kara in a battle to the death.
Oh, and Indigo then convinces Non to enhance Project Myriad's frequency to kill everyone on earth except Kara, whereupon she and Non can leave the planet with Kara as a "queen of a dead world," trapped among the ruins of her own failure. Kara faces Non and Indigo alongside J'onn J'onzz the Martian Manhunter and in a final battle, J'onn tears Indigo apart as Kara defeats her uncle. With her dying breath, Indigo spitefully brags she's locked Project Myriad and even with her death there's no way to stop it.
Redeeming Qualities/Freudian Excuse?
No excuse, any more than her fellow, better known Coluan. Her whole 'let's create a world for the strong' thing is false. Indigo just loves genocide and wiping out species. She does get on fine with Non and even seems to have a relationship with him, but it's purely of convenience and only because they're working together to exterminate humanity.
Heinous Standard?
Attempts genocide several times over and tried to destroy Krypton itself? Astra and Non are into the whole kill humans thing, but Indigo is a class of her own with how nasty she is, the multiple genocides she's attempted and her special level of cruelty in what she proposes for Kara.
to Indigo.
Does anyone mind if I reserve the spot to do the post on the third Rampage film four days from now?
jjj
Lizzid people!
Indigo.
Sure, go ahead.
Lord of Hell
I thought the third rampage movie didn't get enough funding on kickstarter?
Has a bigger focus on gameplay than other visual novels I've seen though.
edited 16th Sep '16 1:31:34 PM by Awesomekid42