During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I don't know, two adult murders, one Frame-Up /attempted murder by proxy (trying to get Potter hung), and three attempted child murders seems like enough to meet the baseline.
jjj
A total has-been.
So far it seems we have 7 votes for including Injun Joe and 4 votes against including him.
Sorry, it's been a while since I read TKAM. But I remain a no on Joe. He's nothing like Ewell. And I was just assuming he was still up for discussion as someone mentioned Ewell when talking about Joe. Now I know they are nothing alike. I don't know why, I just can't see this guy qualifying.
edited 25th May '15 5:17:05 PM by Klavice
Noah Sandborn from The Boy Next Door
Who is he and what does he do?
Noah is a charming 19-year old who is the orphaned nephew of her wheelchair-bound neighbor, who has just moved in next door. Noah befriends the protagonist's (Clarie) teenage son, Kevin. Along with attending his school, where Claire teaches English literature. Noah almost immediately becomes infatuated with Clarie, and soon afterward she gets romantic feelings for him as well. One night, when her son and ex-husband went on a camping trip she called Noah over to have dinner with her which led to them having sex. Afterward, Clarie starts feeling regretful for it and tries to tell Noah that it was nothing more than a one-night stand but Noah refuses to see it that way. He later on joins Clarie's class by hacking into her computer to make it appear as though she requested it. He then beats up and repeatedly slams a bully who was teasing Kevin's head against a locker causing him to fracture the bully's skull when the principal checks his records from other schools she discovers he's been kicked out for disorderly conduct, he responds to this by calling her a "cunt" which gets him expelled. During the fall fling, Claire goes to investigate a leak in the boy's bathroom, where she instead sees the words "I f****d Claire Peterson" written on the wall before Noah emerges. He attempts to force himself on her, but she fends him off and demands that he stay away from her and Kevin. The following day, Noah leaves a printer running in Claire's classroom, with images of them sleeping together scattered everywhere. It's later revealed that he rigged the brakes on Claire's ex-husband car almost causing him and Kevin to have an accident. Noah continues his obsession with Claire and manipulation of the family when he threatens to expose to her son, ex-husband and everyone else the tape he has of them having sex unless she continues sleeping with him. She refuses, and organizes a plot with the principal to steer Noah away from his house, likewise Noah breaks into Claire's house captures the principal and uses a recording of her voice to lure Claire to the house before killing the principal by slashing her in the throat. Once there, Noah reveals that he's the one who killed his father, along with his mistress by rigging the brakes on their car like he did with Claire's ex husband's in retaliation for his mother committing suicide after he cheated on her. He then takes her to a barn house where he has held the ex-husband and Kevin captive threatening to kill them unless Claire stays with him. When she refuses him again, he pours gasoline around the barn and ignites it with flames in an attempt to kill them all. When Claire and the family manage to free themselves and escape the barn Noah holds Kevin at gunpoint before he gets crushed to death by a falling engine.
Freudian Excuse/Redeeming Qualities?
He did say he loved his mother and killed his father and his mistress because of it, but he then compares his love for her to his "love" for Claire which is obviously lust and seeing as he's willing to kill Claire when rejected.....
@ Klavice: Why are you even bringing up Ewell in this? There's no connection here that would necessitate it.
No to the Boy Next Door example, btw
edited 25th May '15 5:25:59 PM by Lightysnake
I already ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
'd Noah around the time Boy Next Door came out, because I felt his Freudian Excuse was still valid - in a true Freudian sense no less. And it can be interpreted that he had a twisted selfish idea of love for Claire. He somewhat reminds me of David McCall from F.E.A.R., who I brought up months back but was voted down for similar reasons.
A total has-been.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That'd be my fault. I made the comparison between Injun Joe and Bob Ewell since committing a heinous crime and then trying to frame an innocent man for it, and attempted child murder some time afterwards, are crimes they share.
for Noah.
edited 25th May '15 7:32:09 PM by ANewMan
I'll say "no" on Noah for the same reasons others have listed.
Did you ever give an opinion on film Injun Joe, or just Literature Injun Joe?
I believe that I have got an example of a CM from the anime series High School Dxd have you guys ever discussed Ranayre before, she is the first antagonist in that series
edited 25th May '15 8:27:38 PM by G-Editor
Oh God no to Raynare. She doesn't do enough to meet the standards.
edited 25th May '15 8:51:54 PM by VeryMelon
Raynare's on the list. Granted, it may have been from when only the first season was out. Given her infintesimal resources, she may be a consideration.
However, I think Loki is a keeper given his Omnicdal Maniac tendencies
edited 25th May '15 8:47:08 PM by Lightysnake
Oh, nevermind me than.
This might sound like a silly question but was she accepted as a CM
I did say she was on the list.
Where exactly though? I can't find the entry.
EDIT: Someone added Diodora Astaroth to YMMV.High School DXD. I cut the entry and left the note.
edited 25th May '15 9:08:57 PM by VeryMelon
...huh, I could've sworn we approved her.
I mean she did cause a lot of pain towards the main cast, especially towards issei the main protagonist of the show. She Pretended to be his girlfriend only to kill him right after their first date. Then she killed an innocent nun Asia who was very close to issei, in order to gain her sacred gear, then she also had the nerve to gloat about this in front of issei. She also mentioned to her comrades how hilarious it was to kill him and break his heart. Once she has been defeated, she makes a false love confession as a last ditch efforts to save herself from the man she hurt
You guys actually approved of her being a CM that strange because I have never seen her on the anime subpages for complete monsters
edited 25th May '15 9:27:48 PM by G-Editor
For Qualen, it's 100 million dollars, not 100 dollars. That's a pretty big difference and makes him seem far more petty.
Then again now that I remember she did to those things to gain the approval of her idol ,fellow fallen angel Azazel and he himself was a decent guy who even the main cast look up to like how a student looks up to a teacher
This made think of this question. Can someone, who does especially heinous thing in an effort to gain the approval of a good guy of whom they idolize, actually be considered to be a complete monster?
Depends on context...
However, as far as a CM form DXD goes, I think Loki is, thus far, the best potential example.
That may be true, but you didn't answer my question regarding if someone like ranayre who would commit heinous acts in an effort to please their master who was a good guy, like Azazel, could be considered a CM
edited 25th May '15 10:07:29 PM by G-Editor
A couple of the CMs listed haven't even been confronted or disposed of yet, anyway. There are already people taking bets as to which ones may or may not be redeemed, but as it stands, they qualify and they're there.
edited 25th May '15 5:00:38 PM by AquaRegia