Ryona needs to be completely overhauled: Ryona

The way Ryona is now isn't a trope description, it's a rant viciously insulting anyone who participates in it, that even lists specific Youtube users involved in it to shame them. The article claims to know the motives and demographics of everyone involved in it in the most insulting way possible, and looking at the discussion pages it's clear the main proponent of the article is stereotyping everyone involved in it due to bad experiences with individuals. Whether we keep the trope or not, the description needs to be drastically changed.

edited 7th Nov '09 8:10:32 PM by SNES Master KI

Lets just cut the whole thing.

Do we really want or need a page dedicated to youtube videos of digital women being beaten/killed?

Yeah, I'd try to help clean it up, but the concept angers me way too much.

See, I'd argue it should be insulting to everyone involved in it. It's disgusting and anyone that likes that sort of thing should feel bad about it.

T Vtropes isn't here to go on tirades against fetishes, gorn and other illegal/squicky fetishes aren't presented anywhere near as negatively, why should people who prefer their violent porn equivalent to focus on the gender they're attracted to be treated as so much worse? There's also no justification for the extreme stereotyping on the page, the article as it is now claims to know for a fact that everyone involved in Ryona hates women and is a sexually frustrated nerd. And as a jaywalking feature, it stereotypes women/men as only liking certain genres of video games.

edited 7th Nov '09 8:58:04 PM by SNES Master KI

I already posted in discussion. I think in fact it needs cutting down a lot- I don't know how there's so much text describing such a simple concept, but I'm pretty sure most of it is extraneous garbage that adds nothing. It is probably worth keeping the article, as what it's about is a real phenomenon. It just needs to be cut down to its most basic.

Maybe I've just been desensitized because of all the other crazy fetishes I see out there, but I agree, why go on some sort of tirade with Ryona?

I suppose I'll admit I actually like some examples of Ryona myself. To be specific, girl-on-girl catfights (More Rumble Roses than Mortal Kombat) are always fun to watch, many wrestling holds tend to be quite suggestive.

I also find death scenes in videogames morbidly fascinating when they involve females, though this is more closely related to a Damsel In Distress kink I have. (I like to see them in danger, not so much the gruesome aftermath.)

Now, given the talk in the discussion, some of those people who do propogate Ryona would sicken me to talk to. Still, claiming everyone who likes Ryona does so for horribly misogynistic reasons and they're the scum of society? Rather harsh. Fetishes cover a whole range of crazy things and we don't try to explain why people get off to furries, or conjoinment, or amputation... So why make psychological profiles for Ryona lovers?

It squicks me out that a considerable number of people think degrading, hurting and killing women is hot because I am a woman.

Presenting women as victims and sexy while/because they are victims is very common across media, on a more low-key level than those virtual snuff videos, it's creepy without end to see it in every other movie I watch. I do not want to be afraid of men, but that "hurting women is sexy" meme is strong and accepted and disgusting.

• misundertanding*

edited 8th Nov '09 3:17:16 AM by SNES Master KI

While I don't sympathise with these videos, I think we don't need a rant about it.

However, is it odd that I find the most offensive part of the article to be "these genres [i.e. fighting games and survival horror] generally doesn't appeal to women as they usually prefer participative games such as World Of Warcraft or more personalized consoles like Wii that seldom feature such kind of games"? I know it says "generally", but it's a bit more of a generalisation that I'm happy with.

I can't say it was the most offensive part, but I did notice that and find it offensive.

I don't think the wiki article should be a rant, I was only trying to answer Trigger Loaded's question.

Okay, misunderstood.

The whole thing seems like prime Flame Bait. I say we just cut it, but I'm fine with what other people decide.

I just took out the paragraphs that were delving into the presumed reasons for it, and the ranting about the type of person who makes/watches it. The page itself is worth keeping — but this isn't the place for socio-psycho-political analysis.

edited 8th Nov '09 6:31:23 AM by Madrugada

It does exist, and you can search for it. While I wouldn't mind if it was cut, I'm thinking it needs a serious rewrite.

The other reason I defend Ryona is because it shares some similarities with the BDSM genre. Just take out the B and the S (Completely unintentional what those letters form.)

I've read BDSM stories (several written by girls) in which the female victims were treated as absolute garbage. Tortured, degraded, and worse. I've seen some pretty hard stuff in bondage tales, art, and what-not. And despite that, many lovers of BDSM are perfectly well-adjusted, both males and females. Even the men wouldn't think of doing this to females. Oh, their fantasies may be dark, but they're fully aware that consentuality is the only way to play in reality, and would note all safety percautions. (Safe words, for example.)

So I suppose that's why the accusing tone of the Ryona article gets to me. The arguments presented against it could easily apply to BDSM fetishists.

It squicks me out that a considerable number of people think degrading, hurting and killing women is hot because I am a woman.

Presenting women as victims and sexy while/because they are victims is very common across media, on a more low-key level than those virtual snuff videos, it's creepy without end to see it in every other movie I watch. I do not want to be afraid of men, but that "hurting women is sexy" meme is strong and accepted and disgusting.

I can see it as disturbing and annoying. Just don't judge everybody who likes it. I'm sure there are individuals who like Ryona for reasons that would squick me out. But I'm just as certain that there are those for who the beating of women is fetish fuel, but would never think to actually do it to a real woman. (And I don't mean in the sociopathic "I'd get caught" manner.)

Did you read it after I did the rewrite? If not, please do. I'd appreciate some feedback.

Lookin' good, Madre. At least, it's not so accusing now.

Still wondering if the description should be broadened. I've seen it apply equally across video games and anime... And even the occasional western cartoon. And the content is rather easily summed up as 'violence on women.' Be it a minor suplex in a wrestling ring, to the pretty-much-gorn fatalities. Of course, that's just me, and perhaps Ryona isn't as broad as I thought.

After some discussion with the troper who made the page, as I understand it, Ryona is specifically a video mash-up of a female character getting beaten,injured or killed, in as nasty and gory a way as possible. So things like pro wrestling don't count, and neither do garden variety catfights. Both could become part of a Ryona video is they're pushed past eleven.

Hmm... Perhaps the Ryona label is getting tossed around too much, then, as I've seen it apply to videos which aren't nearly as gory, hence my above wording. And, perhaps, my entire defense of it.

It's not about gore, it's about the 'brutality,' as evidenced by the retarded amount of Zangief/Akuma vids. (or, when available, clothing destruction.) It just so happens most games favored by such players are also fighting games with lethal moves but any ol' beat'emup works really. Who can forget the saucy whip girls from Streets of Rage? Personally I prefer no men whatsoever. Variable Geo is a pretty good example, as well as the like, ten second fight between Mai and the incompetent girl in the Fatal Fury movie. Ikkitousen is also high up there. Good amount of fighting animes count actually. The Chun-li/Vega fight is one of my personal favorites. I can handle bishonens alright if I have to.

It doesn't really extend to brutality. This troper has seen countless simple vids of rather light handed beatdowns. Virtual Soles (a channel on youtube with a healthy side of foot focus) comes to mind. I'd just chalk it up to sadism, honestly. I mean, if violence against women played for sexual pleasure makes someone a complete monster then what is femdom?

And for the record, there are a number of videos (a larger amount than than ryona for those that frequented since before ryona) where men were beaten down, killed and or dominated by women of all sizes. And for Ho Yay ryona?

EVERYWHERE! You don't even have to label it to find a guy pounding another guy.

Are there anymore takers for Did Not The Research, Straw Femnists or supporters of a Double Standard?

This is an old discussion, is there going to be action taken or is it time for a lock?

The description still needs to be cleaned up; it still has a bunch of speculation about why people like it, and what it is supposed to mean.

edited 22nd Oct '10 10:32:42 AM by Madrugada

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