The Legend Of Zelda - General Thread

Since when was Ganon "King of Moblins"? Hell, there was an actual King Moblin in LA and a more kingly-looking Great Moblin in the Oracles.

I'd argue that his status as some kind of Moblin King in the very first game isn't an unreasonable inference if the first game was all you had to work with.

Ganon is a Moblin in the first game. He's pretty much the big bad as well. It's not really a stretch to think he's the king of the Moblins.

Obviously it's made more clear that isn't always the case, but it's also the same dealio in ALTTP, being that the soldiers who worked for Agnahim(Ganon's other form) just happen to be the Moblins... who also are under Ganon's control. It's actually more clear in that case.

It's not actually that often that it's implied beyond Ganon being a Moblin in the same game, though. It's also implied in the TV show, but he's the king of evil in all of it anyway, and of course he's still presented as a Moblin(although this is an early time where Ganon is pig-like, notably), but he's still their "King" even if he's no longer a Moblin that particular media.

Also, there are a lot of things in Link's Awakening but since none of them are real things that exist in the Zelda universe, they don't offer much to the conversation. The Wind Fish seems to be real, but Koholint Island was All Just a Dream he shared with Link.

edited 5th Jul '16 7:50:58 PM by TobiasDrake

That game was so depressing that I've long decided to create a head-canon where Koholint is totally a real place. I'm still working on it.

I haven't played much of LA but I really enjoy its atmosphere. There's no other Zelda quite like it.

LA's placement in the timeline has always bugged me. It's set in the Downfall timeline and is supposed to be the LTTP Link - which makes sense why they would put it there because it was the fourth in the series and thus the N64 games didn't exist yet - but I've always felt that it makes more sense for the Link in LA to be Ocarina's Hero of Time.

Ocarina's Malon and Talon are pretty clearly based on Awakening's Marin and Tarin. Even their names are extremely similar, especially when you account for the tricky Japanese translation convention regarding the letters "L" and "R". But that's the Doylist explanation. What's the Watsonian justification for it? There really isn't one. It's pure coincidence.

It doesn't really make much sense for LTTP Link to encounter an illusory version of Malon and Talon, but for Ocarina Link, the idea that his safe haven in the bizarre world of the Wind Fish's nightmare would take on the form of these people who represent a small but kind and welcoming part of his life works perfectly.

The Hero of Time even has a built-in rationale for why he's out at sea. Majora's Mask establishes that he's set out on a journey to find Navi after she flew away at the end of Ocarina. He and the Hero of Winds are the only Links who are explicitly established in their games to set out exploring the world once their conflicts are resolved, and between the two, only the Hero of Time has ever met the undreaming counterparts to Marin and Tarin.

edited 5th Jul '16 8:14:25 PM by TobiasDrake

There's also the theory it happens during one of the times you use the Raft in Zelda 1 or Zelda II.

But that doesn't make much sense due to the memory issues. Notably, Malon and Talon are also in The Minish Cap, meaning it's possible they could be among other timelines in general. Much like Tingle is in WW, and TMC, and Oracle of Ages... the point being that some are just legacy characters that make no sense to appear there as well. That's an issue with the timeline itself, it explains only Link, Ganon(dorf), and Zelda at best. And arguably Demise's curse can make it easy for other major villains to appear(like Bellum... if I got that name right. I never finished PH or played ST, and I haven't seen a playthrough of them in at least 2 years).

The strange thing is that Marin and Tarin are the inspiration for Malon and Talon instead of the other way around.

Also Marin was supposed to be a dream version of Zelda wasn't she?

If we're going off of the first game, Ganon can't really be considered a Moblin since the Moblins have bulldog faces instead of the pig faces they have in some later games.

What I'd like to know is how Ganondorf even went straight from being "King of the Gerudo" to "King of all the monsters/Demon King". It's like he instantly abandoned his people and came to rule the monsters when he got the Triforce of Power. There are no Gerudo minions guarding the various temples or even in his castle (unless you count the Iron Knuckles reusing Nabooru's model underneath.)

That's obvious. He got corrupted by Power, and became the Monster buried within. Also, again, he's a Moblin in the first game, and has been a Moblin in almost every game(except WW and TP, in which cases he was able to create some Ganon puppet, although we don't know if he simply couldn't access his regular Ganon form or just chose not to. He has the Triforce of Power, which he has often used to become it. Also, the fact he alone corrupted the Sacred Realm into the Dark World makes a load of sense that he can easily become King of all Monsters. He has the ruling instinct and became a Monster and all. As for TP, he became a Boar, and Moblins weren't even in that game, so that could part of why, although we do a Boar that King Bulbin uses, so maybe that's what Moblins were reduced to, animals instead of regular sapient beings. Mind you, that's a theory I just thought of, and TP just went for more animal versions of Link and Ganondorf compared to their humanoid forms in the Dark World, being a Bunny and a Moblin).

Ganondorf also clearly had a lot of evil inside him to be able to corrupt the Sacred Realm. But also keep in mind that the Triforce of Power seems to be easy to become corrupt with too. Fierce Deity Link is intended to be a the dark force of Link when he gains the full Triforce and goes evil. According to the lore, anyway. Also, being a MM item, it's possible that the version of Link from Termina went evil, but also didn't have a reincarnation/spirit of the hero thing going on either. But I doubt that, since it's kind of strange that Young Link from Hyrule can use the Fierce Deity Mask as is, suggesting that he's connected in some spiritual way.

That is correct. The harp thing is notable since Zelda is often seen with one as her main instrument in some games. Although that may be only shown in her Sheik form sometimes.

edited 5th Jul '16 9:17:57 PM by Irene

So I managed to complete the Water Temple in about 2 hours without using a walkthrough.

The Water Temple's not actually that bad. It's intimidating, is what it is. Huge central chamber with lots of routes branching out from it all at once. But you can only access a few paths at a time and it's super-linear despite its appearance. It's not really a maze, it just looks like one.

So long as you approach it like any other dungeon, hitting what routes you can when you can, using the Compass if you need to backtrack to find a chest, recognizing that not having the Dungeon Item means you're not supposed to go a certain way yet, etc. it's pretty simple.

edited 6th Jul '16 7:35:12 AM by TobiasDrake

I don't find the great bay temple to be that bad anymore either.

iirc you just follow the pipes.

Trying to get onto some platforms with the Zora controls and fighting Gyorg were really the only difficult parts of the Great Bay Temple anyway.

Mind you, it doesn't help that the Water Temple is vastly easier due to better overall controls, but still.

My issue with Great Bay temple was that in the central room, it was easy to get disoriented, hard to accurately use the map, often tricky to line yourself up properly, and it wasted a lot of time when you chose the wrong opening.

The Water Temple is obnoxious more than anything, especially in the original version of Ocarina where the boots weren't button items but equipment that you had to go into the menu to toggle.

Regarding Marin/Tarin: There are versions of Malon and Talon in Oracle of Seasons (and Hyrule Historia places the Oracles just before Link's Awakening). However, that version of Malon is a child. Perhaps Marin is an amalgamation of Malon and Zelda.

edited 6th Jul '16 8:56:59 AM by Kayube

Heh, I'd forgotten how time-consuming the Great Bay temple was when I revisited Majora's Mask on the 3DS. I was like, "It's halfway through the second day and I'm a franchise veteran on replay. I'm sure there's enough time for me to ace this dungeon."

I had about 1:30 left on the clock when I finished the fight with Gyorg. @.@ Stupidity-induced time crunch added a lot of extra pressure to that dungeon.

Just completed the Shadow Temple. I'd say this was probably my favorite Dungeon so far.

: Also, Zelda's sprite in the Oracle games and Ltt P has reddish hair.

It's not just you, the amount of time in each cycle in MM 3 D is shortened. Greatly in your first cycle, and moderately in all others.

edited 6th Jul '16 11:32:47 AM by tclittle

Even if you play the Reverse Song of Time?

I can believe that. I barely managed to race to the Great Faerie, turn in the collectable faeries, grab my reward, and hit the Song of Time before the moon could hit.

Did not have time to turn my rupees in to the bank.

It's not like money's an issue in MM.

Are there even any Zelda games where it is? Even WW, with its steep prices, throws money at you.