Final Fantasy general

That's fine - there wasn't exactly a rich tradition of complex and interesting villains in FF at that point anyways. Golbez was ok, but we've done better since. At least Exdeath and Gilgamesh are fun.

I'd go so far as to say V has more compelling writing than IV to be honest, if only for the fact that it didn't feel like it was writing around having the party split up and come back at arbitrary intervals for gameplay reasons. Also, it's enjoyably goofy.

I think it's defnly a thing that FF does over-the-top villains better than introspective ones. Kefka has hints of pensiveness, but is at his best when he's a cackling lunatic; Kuja speaks (and acts) like he's in a melodrama; Ultimecia has, like Kefka, hints of a deeper nature, but buries it under a cartoonish mwahaha nature and, frankly, a bizarre fashion sense; Ardyn is a giant troll, and it's magnificent. And so on.

Vayne is a great introspective villain in my opinion, but the only reason that was pulled off is because it was a Matsuno helmed FF and the great localization.

I still really respect Dissidia for managing to expand on Kefka's character a little without fundamentally changing anything about him.

I think Dissidia was largely successful with expanding on the villains. The only ones that I think came off poor(er) are Gabranth, who feels less interesting than XII, and Ultimecia, who is just terrible all around except for her final form in FFVIII.

Gabranth's not a surprise given you need a very good writer to make a character like him work, which most Square Enix employees simply aren't.

Adding nuance to a bunch of flat villains is easier than trying to write an already nuanced character.

edited 17th Jan '17 4:30:24 PM by Hashil

I think the key is having the right person in charge for most of them. Daisuke Watanabe wrote pretty good stuff for FFXII probably because he was working under Matsuno's supervision, but he also worked on XIII where he was under Toriyama who most people don't think is a very good writer or director.

Toriyama?

Right, I know we're talking about a different dude obviously, but considering the one I'm thinking of is known for making it up as he goes along, it can seem a bit confusing.

We're talking about this chap, in case you're not familiar with him.

He's become a bit infamous for directing XIII, and for his opinions on game design and whatnot which are...divisive, to say the least.

Motomu doing everything short of masturbating when interviewed about how Lighting's bust was made larger for Lightning Returns was impossibly creepy.

I'm not surprised that he was the person responsible for the Honey Bee Inn, although I think the idea of including a brothel in an FF game is pretty bold.

edited 17th Jan '17 5:31:29 PM by Draghinazzo

It was definitely different. I'm not sure if it was absolutely necessary, but it added to the atmosphere of the scene.

Not sure if you're familiar with the finer details since I think you haven't played it yet, but I'm gonna spoiler this just in case:

The gaggle of macho camp guys all but gangbanging Cloud in a hot tub takes it from being ballsy to tasteless in seconds flat, though, so I'm not going to give them total credit for it.

Well Him and Toriyama were convinced that Lightning was Perfection, NO FF female or Main character would ever top her.

Will Cloud finally get to have some fun with the Honey Bees in the remakes before a much of Bears or Sephiroth mentally cockblocks him...

Probably not cause Japan has this weird fixation on Sexual behavior with its heroes... they can be as big pervert they want to be... but They'd never actually do something like have meaningless sex for the sake of having meaningless sex!

Thats why the G rated red light district exists!

edited 17th Jan '17 5:36:30 PM by FrozenWolf2

That's probably because JRPG's and shounen manga (which is where the standard you're talking about applies) are by and large made for teenagers and otaku, many of whom might be socially awkward and can't relate to actually having sex lives (or actual real relationships for that matter).

A main character who has sex with prostitutes or has an actual girlfriend in the story proper is way too real and "unwholesome" for most of them.

edited 17th Jan '17 5:48:56 PM by Draghinazzo

I could understand unwholesome being applied to a guy/gal that has frivolous sexually liaisons they have no plans to further a relationship.

But if their an official couple whats wrong with that? or does this tie back into Waifu mentality of purity should be loved

It is all about shipping. Any official couple kills quite a bit of shipping interest.

Fanfiction is where characters actually do the deeds and its all in the minds of fans.

edited 17th Jan '17 6:33:40 PM by Memers

Uhhh, yeah that probably has something to do with it. It's not really considered appropriate for most teenage media in Japan, IIRC at one point there was a scene that implied Cloud and Tifa slept together in FF 7 but management thought that was going too far.

It's in there, still. Apparently it gets more explicit if you went on a date with her in the Gold Saucer.

Never is outright said, but it's implied.

The sad part is that Lightning wasnt even that bad in XIII, its XIII-2 and LR where the whole Creator's Pet nonsense really took its toll on her.

I rather liked Lightning's story in LR though, it was very Persona-like.

She becomes a Silent Protagonist and joins a group of wacky but troubled school students as they investigate a bizarre and deadly alternate world filled with monsters that represent a person's subconscious?

From what I understand it's more like she became a goddess figure working against the clock in order to save the world from the impending apocalypse.

Which is apt considering it's a tri-ace game.

edited 17th Jan '17 7:45:18 PM by Draghinazzo

She is denying her shadow (Lumina) and suppressing her true self.

I liked Lumina

There's an Honest Trailer for XV.

Your mileage may vary...

Though I honestly hope that after Remake VII they never attempt this kind of gameplay again.

edited 18th Jan '17 6:23:58 AM by Soble