Final Fantasy general

Probably something like that, Edea says received her powers from a dying woman she came across when she was young girl right?

Edea has received the powers Twice

once when she was child -Cid says Edea has been one since she was very young-

and 13 years ago -from the story- when she was running the Orphanage and You know who showed up. She outright said she took the powers least one of the younger girls get them.

Yeah, Rinoa got two doses too right? One from Edea and one from Adel.

EDIT She also took the powers from the Sorceresses lost in Time Compression as well too if I remember right.

edited 4th Sep '15 8:54:55 PM by lycropath

How you can save Aeris in the FFVII remake.

FFVIII never directly says it but it's one of those things people inferred from the information they were given, like Braska's Calm supposedly lasting ten years. FFVIII makes a big deal that "A Sorceress cannot die without passing on their powers." That's why Laguna had to seal Adel and it's why Ultimecia literally had to travel in time to give her power to Edea.

Based on this, people assumed Rinoa could live forever if she so chose. Then again, this is FFVIII and nothing is explained or makes sense. All we know is that Ultimecia is from "the future." She could be around in 20 years for all we know. Rinoa certainly doesn't need to last millennia to be Ultimecia because we have no idea when Ultimecia is from apart from sometime forward from now.

There was also the whole thing with Griever, which is entirely meaningless. Ultimania says Ultimecia literally just plucked him out of Squall's head and that's it. WOW, GREAT WRITING FOR A FINAL BOSS, RIGHT? So people came up with the idea it actaully had some relevance, namely back to when Squall gave Rinoa his ring and they discussed...Griever.

In short, R=U is a lot like Squall is Dead, only not as retarded. It's intended to try nnd fix the inherently broken mess that is Final Fantasy VIII.

@ Venat

You forget it was apparently possessing Bergan when he massacred Bur-omisace. Venat is no different from the Occuria, she uses human lives and throws them away.

edited 4th Sep '15 9:38:48 PM by Nikkolas

Winner, I would pay it.

Ultimecia is a sorceress "Many generations" in the future. That seems far beyond a normal human lifespan in most senses. Griever also does make sense in a way that Ultimecia is taking what Squall perceives as the ultimate symbol of strength and using it against him.

Bergan was a patsy, but Vayne and Cid where partners.

edited 4th Sep '15 9:58:22 PM by lycropath

Bergan was at least implied not to be terribly stable even before Venat cast a permanent Berserk on him, though.

And ultimately these are not Venat's goals but Vayne's that Venat is willing to help with because they are besties.

They say you can tell a lot about a person based on the company they keep....

I'd have more respect for Venat if she intended Vayne to fail. That way, humes are truly free, as opposed to replacing one dictator with another. If you can even call the Occuria dictators given they don't really do anything 99% of the time and let the rest of Ivalice do whatever.

edited 4th Sep '15 10:23:28 PM by Nikkolas

The entire reason why Venat gave Vayne and Cid the secrets to the Occurian's god rocks was so they could use them to wipe out the Gerun's connection from the world because those who are not effected by times flow should not be the ones writing how the way the mortals live their lives. They even have a conversation how their relationship is different because its based on mutual respect rather then God bequeathing his chosen stewerds with the might to rule with strings attached.

Except their mortality is also pointed out to be a flaw. Humes live such short lives and times are ever fickle and changing that, as Vayne said, they couldn't afford to take more "prudent" - ie. less murderous - measures.

The only way to reshape the world was with brute force and a lot of innocent blood. And at the end, if our party hadn't succeeded, Vayne would sit atop his blood-drenched throne and rule the world.

But hey, we can take comfort in the fact those invisible people who don't do anything for hundreds of years at a time are...going to continue to do nothing, even as the jackboots crush our necks. Or, mailboots? Plateboots? Whatever.

That's the entire point though, humans should be able to dictate their history however bloody with their own hands and without the so called Gods deciding whats best because they don't understand what it is to be human at all.

And you forget that the way the Occuria had Raithwall unite Ivalice was through bloodshed with the use of his nethicite (An analogue to a nuclear weapon) and that Gerun planned for Ashe or Vaan to follow in the same footsteps and become their new Dynast King using the same tool to wipe out Archades and Venat with it.

edited 4th Sep '15 11:25:00 PM by lycropath

So I went back to 2 for the first time in 4 or 5 years. For some reason I stopped playing right outside of Palamecia Castle. After getting through that particular dungeon I'm kind of shocked that I misread Leon's character so badly. I thought he was being mind controlled but it turns out he's actually evil. Huh, that's kind of shocking.

I'd like to see him as a conflicted Golbez-type baddie in another Dissidia storyline.

Maybe with him Dual Wielding an axe and a spear and augmenting himself with Dark Knight-type abilities, since he's more or less the first Dark Knight in the same way Ricard's the first Dragoon.

Maria and Leon need to be in one of the Dissidia games. We don't have any archers in Dissidia and more female characters would always be welcome.

Celes too. She's got as much claim to the main character role as Terra does.

A lot of people say 6 doesn't really have a true protagonist but I disagree with that. I think it's a Deuteragonist situation with Terra and Celes switching focus throughout the story.

edit: A small case could be made for Locke too but he's not as central to the story as they are.

edited 5th Sep '15 8:29:27 AM by Kostya

I actually agree with the notion that FFVI doesn't have a true protagonist, mostly due to the way it's set up. That said, Terra is the face of the game.

I've largely though of Terra as the protagonist because she's the face of the game's human/esper conflict. Never really had an opinion on Celes so I didn't consider her position.

I think it's notable that whenever Terra or Celes is out of the party the other is immediately forced back into it and takes a central role in the conflict.

I'd say the game overall focuses more on Terra- Notably, she's the only missing party member to appear in the ending if you don't recruit her in the World of Ruin- But Celes is important to the story, too, and Locke serves as something like a "male lead," the Rinoa or Rosa or so on.

In terms of character importance I'd go: Terra>Celes>Locke>Edgar=Setzer=Cyan>Sabin=Strago=Relm>Everyone Else.

I don't think Venat was directly possessing the various Nethicite users in the game. She personally intervened to help her friends - Cid and Vayne - but Bergan or Mjrn just got a burst of power and the insanity that goes with it. She is like the owner of a sports car that just gives the keys to accointances, but personally drives when she cares about the person.

As for respecting her if she planned for Vayne to fail, you seem to forget that Vayne never seemed to intend to rule forever, considering how he pretty much planned for Larsa to replace him. Nothing in the game points out that he was lying when he said that Larsa was the true emperor humanity needed.

And I agree with whoever said that Venat was not the Big Bad since everything is made to show that she treated Vayne and Cid as equals. She basically sacrifices herself so that Vayne can keep fighting, that's not something a Big Bad would do, ever - since Occurias are immortal, a true Big Bad would simply retreat and wait for another pawn to show up. If anything, she is some kind of Evil Chancellor to Vayne's Big Bad and Cid's Mad Scientist, and nothing in the game points to a lack of sincerity on her (or Cid's for that matter, and even arguably Vayne's) part.

The issue at play is that Venat's goal- Freeing humanity of the chains laid upon them by the Occuria- Ended up as Phase 1 of Vayne's plots- Making himself the new dynast-king of Ivalice. To some extent, the conflict ended up being entirely Vayne's fault, but at the same time it's hard to think of a method that would've worked as quickly as it did.

... Long story short, Venat got lucky because Ashe realized how stupid nukes are.